Pocket Carry. Really?

[Guillermo]

too bad that thongs and wet t-shirts ain't fashionable for old fat guys, though

personally I am quite happy that such is not acceptable or fashionable in most places!!!

I am by no means skinny...but heading to Academy with a 4 inch diamondback on my hip...zero problemo

 

[Mike1234567]

too bad that thongs and wet t-shirts ain't fashionable for old fat guys, though

..................

 

[Guillermo]

too bad that thongs and wet t-shirts ain't fashionable for old fat guys

last month I spent a week on Mustang Island. I wish you had given some of those people this important fashion tip.

At least I could tell who was carrying

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxtv1KQimis holster,5.11 tactical makes shirts with built in holsters,plus vests.pants with clip pouches built in.nrastore.org has a bunch of clothing for gun concealment

 

[IMTHDUKE]

I carry a moneybag at night for a night deposit. I put the money in, then hold my jframe in my hand and zip my hand in the bag. So basically I walk with my hand stuck in the bag. If needed, God forbid, I'll shoot straight thru the bag. " Gimme whats in the bag" is the last thing I wanna hear.

Then I guess you just "blow your wad".

 

[sm]

Pocket carry is not a new thing.

One of the things we have to remember, no matter the make, model, action type, caliber, or type of ammunition used, is being able to access a firearm, and to employ it quickly and effectively.

Having a hand on a firearm, when in a pocket, still concealed, affords one some advantages.

 

[bgr2014]

Pocket Carry

Just timed myself with my S&W 642 im 73yrs.old and it took 2.5 seconds. As far as being too close, think I'd raise my leg and shoot through pants. Maybe burn leg or set pants on fire, but better than taking a slug. I can see me dancing around with my pants on fire, guess I'll have to carry a fire extinguisher in my back pocket. LOL

 

[Mike1234567]

^^^ Or you might just shoot yourself in the leg.

 

[David E]

There are lots of reasons people might not want to change their wardrobe. Laziness? Really?

Yes, really. When he stated "don't want to modify your dress" to accommodate the gun, that's lazy. that means he could do so if he simply wanted to.

How hard is it to wear an untucked shirt? Or to utilize a tuckable holster that carries a better gun than you can put in your pocket?

 

[CTPhil]

I don't want to modify my dress and I'm not lazy. I wear what works best for the work that I do. I've always tucked in shirts with tails and will continue to, for safety and I don't feel properly dressed in public with an untucked shirt. Waistband holsters simply don't work with my body.

It's a good point of discussion, though, do we work everything we do around our carry? Or the other way around?

 

[hardluk1]

david e are you drawing concealed with one hand? Do you realize that the .32 difference in time is 3 quick blinks of an eye. Thats not much for someone that is not well practiced at pocket carry. Now think about how much quicker it might be for some of use that have years of carry'n this way and do it with only one hand.

Better still let use carry the way we want and you can do the same with out telling us how lazy we are in your eyes.

 

[Red Cent]

"It's a good point of discussion, though, do we work everything we do around our carry? Or the other way around? "

Great question.

Do we carry with how we dress or do we carry for efficiency? Or do we carry how we think we can be effective?

You have to really think out "why do I carry".

The road I take: I cannot justify a pocket gun. I need the speed of a holster and I dress accordingly.

 

[sm]

There is no Holy Grail

In anything, be it guns, ammo or carry.

I was born in the mid '50's and had some darn interesting Mentors & Elders that had been there and done that, and not just in the USA, also abroad.

Tueller drill: Well the Tueller incident had not yet happened when I was mentored that a perp can reach you in about 1.5 seconds from 7 yard/21 feet.

While we did not do stopwatches that much, we did have "charging targets" that could reach one in 1.5 seconds. We did these drills with handgun, rifle and shotgun by the way.

We also did one-on-one drills and used water pistols when I was younger, and later some other things.

I am 56 years old now, but if memory serves I was about 50 years old the last time I was timed.

Model 1911 from IWB .9 seconds from "beep" to first shot on target.
Model 442 : .7 seconds.
Kel Tec P11 .8 seconds.

Now was mentored it was not cheating if it worked, instead ingenuity. So I have removed a 1911, Model 10, 042, and what not from hip and put into a jacket pocket, or even blazer pocket.

If memory serves I was able to use a 642 and in .5 seconds shoot the threat target from my blue blazer. Yes, I shot thru the pocket.
I think it was around .7 when I did it with a Colt Combat Commander, from a windbreaker pocket.

Oh both of these were done weak handed. Something else I was mentored on as well.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

I practice drawing my j-frame from my pocket 500-1000 times a day. I use snap caps to dry fire it after the draw at blown-up photos of Usama Bin Laden, Richard Ramirez, and Andrew Dice Clay in order to steel my mind against possibly having to use violence against my fellow bipedal being. I often have my wife shoot me with an airsoft gun as I do so to inure myself to being wounded in combat. I also raise bees, so I get stung on purpose in case the Goblin attacks me in combination with stepping in a hornets nest. In case I am in a shootout during a hurricane I use an industrial fan and firehose so I am used to prodigious amounts of water being blasted in my face while trying to engage the bad guy.
I've also taken to having her(the Mrs.) hit me with rattan canes in case Moro warriors come thru a dimensional warp to my backyard and attack me, which reminds me, I need a .45 acp as .38 special will not do if attacked by Moro's.
Back on topic, I can draw and fire five shots from my j-frame(in my pocket) in 1.2 seconds, unless I have a rhesus monkey on my back biting my ears, in which case I've worked it down to 1.45 seconds, but continue to drill in case of such an eventuality.
I've only had a problem when wearing my longer chainmail shirt, for sharks, but have put a slit in the right side and that seems to keep my pocket draw time down.

Really.

 

[David E]

david e are you drawing concealed with one hand?

Of course.

Do you realize that the .32 difference in time is 3 quick blinks of an eye. Thats not much for someone that is not well practiced at pocket carry.

Blousing the pocket was essentially cheating, but evenso, most of the draws were over 1.5. The big thing I noticed was the consistency. I was much more consistent with the belt holster. Discarding the high/lows, the difference, really, was closer to 1/2 second, or 50% longer than drawing one handed from a concealed belt holster.

Now think about how much quicker it might be for some of use that have years of carry'n this way and do it with only one hand.

We would love to hear a range report on your pocket draws. I've noticed that most people who pocket carry don't practice drawing from it. If they do, it's a "hand on gun" start. Great when you can anticipate the problem in advance....but how about when you don't?

Better still let use carry the way we want and you can do the same with out telling us how lazy we are in your eyes.

Clearly, our priorities are different. If pocket carry gets you to carry a gun, any gun, then great!

 

[hardluk1]

davide You have told many how to not carry or how to carry, how to dress and you tell people they are lazy and to carry a "better gun". Are you going to tell someone like Ayoob how to carry too or correct him when he has a handgun in his pocket.
I got to tell my old leo buddies that when off duty they can't pocket carry or ankle carry anymore. That .32 was really 1/2 second. Got to try that "blousing thang" that may make me quicker. Just not sure you can blouse jeans. That might matter if i timed anything. You know other than the matchs I have shot i never had a clock on anything i do.

If IWB gets you to carry a gun, any gun, then great. Be Happy David, don't preach, your way is not the only option.










Just like you , I found what works for me with out a comprimizeing with my life and i don't have to dress for the occasion . I have never carried a full sized handgun and never will and that also maybe against your views of whats right for you, but works for me.

If i tested draw time like you I would also find my time to draw from a iwb holster might be a bit slower as i have not carried that way long enough to be skilled at it like you are.

You can carry how you wish .Do so and feel safe. I will do it my way with my 9mm.

 

[mavracer]

If they do, it's a "hand on gun" start. Great when you can anticipate the problem in advance....but how about when you don't?

So let's see if I have this, Not wanting to dress around a IWB is lazy but wearing a IWB so you can reduce your situational awareness is not lazy.
We can play the what if game all day. You want to lug four bags of groceries in your arms, I'll use a cart. You want to load the dishwasher in the back of the truck, I have the lowes employees do it.
Bottom line pocket carry allows me to walk around with gun in hand, you can't do that with a IWB without drawing attention to the guy with the gun.

 

[Sassi]

The key is to buy pants that have pockets deep enough to accommodate covering the gun, and pocket holes that are wide enough to allow you to easily reach into the pocket and pull the gun out without any difficulties. All pants made, even by the same company these days are not the same. When I go to buy pants I go into the dressing room and try them on and see if my gun fits the pocket and can be removed from the pocket easily, before I buy.

 

[David E]

davide You have told many how to not carry or how to carry, how to dress and you tell people they are lazy and to carry a "better gun".

No, I haven't. I only challenged the oft-repeated assertion that a pocket draw is apparently always faster than a draw from a belt holster. So far, no one has stepped up to the plate to prove it. Instead, we get only macho bravado that attempts to maintain that assertion by mere speculation. This, amusingly enough, confirms my observation that most pocket carry guys don't practice their draw. Well, maybe once a day when they take the entire rig out at the end of the day.

Any gun you can comfortably carry in your pocket, you can carry a better one on your belt. The reason people don't is simply a matter of convenience, nothing more.

Are you going to tell someone like Ayoob how to carry too or correct him when he has a handgun in his pocket.

Funny you mention Ayoob. I know him and know that: A) he rarely only carries a pocket gun, and B) unlike most, he actually practices such things like drawing from a pocket and making hits on targets.

Got to try that "blousing thang" that may make me quicker. Just not sure you can blouse jeans.

True, not all pockets are suitable for pocket carry. I set mine up to allow the fastest draw possible....and still was slower than the full-size gun from a belt rig, carried in a normal
manner, covered by a normal shirt.

That might matter if i timed anything. You know other than the matchs I have shot i never had a clock on anything i do.

I believe you.

Just like you , I found what works for me with out a comprimizeing (SP) with my life...

I am glad you found a convenient way to carry a gun with you.

 

[David E]

So let's see if I have this, Not wanting to dress around a IWB is lazy but wearing a IWB so you can reduce your situational awareness is not lazy.

Where did you come up with that ?? Why do you feel the need to twist and distort things that weren't even said to make your "point?"

Anyone who carries a gun better have better situational awareness than anyone around him, regardless of how he carries his gun.

You want to lug four bags of groceries in your arms, I'll use a cart.

Got a cart at home, too?

Bottom line is pocket carry allows me to walk around with a hand on my gun...

Yes, it does....... But is your hand really on the gun 100% of the time? Any idea how fast your actual draw is, both hand on gun and with hand out of the pocket? Do you even practice these basics?

 

[JohnBT]

"I only challenged the oft-repeated assertion that a pocket draw is apparently always faster than a draw from a belt holster. So far, no one has stepped up to the plate to prove it."

To prove what? Who said a pocket draw was always faster? I've been pocket carrying everyday since the last century and I know I've never said it. And now I'm lazy for pocket carrying?

I tried a full-sized 1911 for daily concealed carry. Nope, didn't fit my body.
I tried a BHP (and CZ-75B for that matter) both on my hip and appendix carry. Nope, although the BHP worn IWB in front is a lot better than on the hip.
I've tried a 442 and a 649 using belt holsters. Appendix carry isn't bad.
I've tried lots of guns.

Common thread here... my butt is not as flat as my belly.

And I've bought lots of clothes, too.

So now somebody says if you pocket carry you're lazy. Sheesh. Everybody thinks they're an expert. Do I tell everyone to buy a Rohrbaugh? No.

John

 

[Warp]

So let's see if I have this, Not wanting to dress around a IWB is lazy but wearing a IWB so you can reduce your situational awareness is not lazy.

This is a poor statement. He did not say nor imply anything of the sort.

Nobody can always be aware of everything that might happen and nobody can realistically claim that they will have their hand in their pocket on their gun before the time comes to use it.

 

[David E]

4-5 posts in this thread said drawing from the pocket was "just as fast or faster" than drawing from a concealed belt holster.

Ok, prove it. I went out and proved the opposite. The pocket draw was .42 slower (not the misreported .32 another poster said. 1.44 - 1.02= .42) To get that close, I had to "cheat" with the pocket draw.

Why does anyone pocket carry except for convenience? Or, as one poster said, because he refuses to untuck his shirt in public, thereby giving fashion a higher priority. My priorities are different.

As I've said several times already, if pocket carry gets you to tote a gun on your body, great!

 

[CTPhil]

Why does anyone pocket carry except for convenience? Or, as one poster said, because he refuses to untuck his shirt in public, thereby giving fashion a higher priority.

Ha ha, that would be me, a slave to fashion.

That assumption is as baseless as the many other ones you've made in this thread. People have many different reasons for doing what they do, you seem to want to jam everything into one pigeonhole that fits your position, and that also coincidentally assumes the lowest motives on the part of your fellow humans.

 

[mavracer]

Got a cart at home, too?

nope got 2 kids to carry groceries and 5 dogs to help watch for bad guys.
As I said we can play what if all day.

Yes, it does....... But is your hand really on the gun 100% of the time?

No it's not, I usually relax a little at times like when I'm driving down the highway. walking across a dark parking lot you can bet your butt it's 100%

Any idea how fast your actual draw is, both hand on gun and with hand out of the pocket?

Yes, it's around .8 OWB no cover or hand on gun in pocket, 1.1 IWB with a cover but can easily get to 1.5 if I have trouble with the cover. Pocket carry with hand out of pocket runs from 1.3 to 1.5 sec.

Do you even practice these basics?

Yes all those times are for a A zone hit on a IDPA target at 10 yards. I've had my pact club timer since I won it at the '93 USPSA area 3 match in St Louis.
One more thing from the pocket of a hoodie I can consistantly put two rounds in the C zone at 10 feet in under 1/2 second.