pocket pistol caliber war .32 vs .380

[R.W.Dale]

Krochus: Excellent Post! EXACTLY why I carry my Seecamp LWS32 with me EVERYWHERE I go. Looked at a Kahr PM-9, Rohrbaugh R-9, and Walther PPS, and I knew I wouldn't carry them as much as the .32. Works for me, but then again, there is a huge contingent out there that feels undergunned with anything smaller than a 1911. To each his own.

That's the reasoning behind my purchase. I have a compact 10mm that is by no means large, but I know good and well that I would leave it at home when faced with the prospect of sitting on it for a couple hours in a car or showing it to everyone when bending over to land a fish at the river. I want to be able to carry a gun without acting like I'm carrying a gun.

 

[clarence222]

I bought the P32 Kel-tec simply because of the price. I wanted the 3AT but found a barely used P32 with a 10 round spare mag, pocket clip and 2 holsters for well under $200. I didnt think I could go wrong and havent.

Personally I like a 1911 but they arent always practical in the summer.
I have noticed something on my P32 and the 9mm model Kel-tec that they originally came out with, was that they seemed to only want to feed hollow points.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by krochus:
Stopping power is a complete MYTH. Anyone who mentions "stopping power" loses all credibility in my book. You want stopping power? then carry a rifle

Gee, that's funny. Because internationally renown firearms and/or ballistics experts have been discussing and debating handgun STOPPING POWER for decades. Acknowledged experts like Massad Ayoob, the late Jeff Cooper, Evan Marshall, Edwin Sanow, Martin Fackler etc.---have discussed handgun STOPPING POWER at length in books, magazines, training courses, seminars etc. for many years, and many of them have even written ENTIRE BOOKS on the subject of handgun STOPPING POWER.

Yet you, an acknowledged "internet expert", claims it doesn't exist. I know who I believe!

here's that stopping power myth again. Anyone with a brain knows 10mm is even better than the puny 9mm. Game set match

It may be a "myth" to "internet experts", but not genuine firearms and/or ballistic authorities like Massad Ayoob, Martin Fackler, Edwin Sanow, Evan Marshall, Jeff Cooper etc.

Of course the 10mm is more powerful than the 9mm. However, I do believe we were discussing pistols suitable for POCKET carry. There are 9mm's suitable for pocket carry, but I haven't seen a 10mm yet that will fit the bill. Even if they had 10mm's that small, not many people would want to shoot them.

as if Kahr is known for being the gold standard of quality and reliability

I don't own any Kahr's, so please feel free to denigrate them to your heart's content. However, I've fired and carefully examined several models of both Kahr and Kel-Wreck, and anybody with a working knowledge of both firearms, realizes the superior quality and performance of the Kahr. Just as certainly as they can recognize the quality and performance difference between a 2008 BMW and a 1966 Volkswagen Beetle.

smaller and with you is about 20000x better than larger and at home in the dresser. I'm not going to dress like Bing Crosby in the Arkansas summers in order to hide a "BIG" little gun I would be more likely to die of heatstroke than in a shootout. Do you carry at ALL times with your "compensator"? because I plan to have my little 32 with me everywhere the law allows.

Your irrelevant assumptions are meaningless. I NEVER leave home without my firearm on my person. I'm sorry to hear you don't have the knowledge or equipment to properly conceal slightly larger guns that actually have an excellent chance of stopping determined criminals, so you must resign yourself to the false sense of protection an anemic peashooter like the .32 provides.

I'm from the South, and I've carried in places just as hot as Arkansas. I worked out in the summer heat for years. Doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[R.W.Dale]

defensory

so you must resign yourself to the false sense of protection an anemic peashooter like the .32 provides.

I'll tell ya what I'll give you $4000 to let me shoot you in the chest with my lil pea shooter .32

Somehow I doubt you or anyone else with a brain would take me up on that offer.

Acknowledged experts like Massad Ayoob, the late Jeff Cooper, Evan Marshall, Edwin Sanow, Martin Fackler etc.---have discussed handgun STOPPING POWER at length in books, magazines, training courses, seminars etc. for many years, and many of them have even written ENTIRE BOOKS on the subject of handgun STOPPING POWER.

and the first thing they usually say is how all handguns SUCK at stopping people. Go shoot some critters with various "defensive" handgun calibers and you'll begin to understand. If you think all outcomes will be rosy because you carry a handgun that starts with a.4 you need more training.

 

[mavracer]

before this gets locked
Krochus find some sellier&bellot or fiocchi 32 acp it's much hotter than domestic stuff.
I run S&B out of my walther PP it'll chrono 1100fps and I use fiocchi 60 gr SJHP in my seecamp it does 1000 FPS

 

[R.W.Dale]

before this gets locked
Krochus find some sellier&bellot or fiocchi 32 acp it's much hotter than domestic stuff.
I run S&B out of my walther PP it'll chrono 1100fps and I use fiocchi 60 gr SJHP in my seecamp it does 1000 FPS

I intend to do just that. I noticed that published velocities for euro 7.65 are good deal faster than domestic. If you're gettin 1100 with S&B in a ppk it'll prolly still hit 1000 fps in the little p32

 

[mavracer]

I might add it seams to shoot ok too
this is only 7 yards but she's minute of eyeball

 

[Disaster]

I'll tell ya what I'll give you $4000 to let me shoot you in the chest with my lil pea shooter .32

Somehow I doubt you or anyone else with a brain would take me up on that offer.

That argument gets used over and over and is as pointless as it was the first time it was used.

No one with a brain will agree to be shot with anything.

No one with a brain will agree to stop a charging lion with a .22 if they are offered a choice between it and a .50 BMG.

These extremes are the black and white of the argument. The meat is in the grey in between.

It all comes down to what you are comfortable with, defending your life, loved ones and property. It is a trade off between carrying convenience and stopping power.

You have to decide.

For me, I don't feel comfortable below a .380. Others think a 9mm is puny. Some think any handgun caliber is a joke.

 

[R.W.Dale]

One thing rings true throughout all sides the argument. It all comes down to shot placement shot placement shot placement. Everything else is secondary.


I've shot small to medium sized critters with high end defensive ammo and witnessing their performance first hand I fall into the "any handgun caliber is a joke" category. But that being said a handgun still beats the crap a sharp pointy stick or throwing rocks.

 

[Defensory]

^Actually, that's the room of a deceased victim who chose to try and defend himself with a pathetic .32 during an attack by armed perpetrators!

Posted by krochus:
I'll tell ya what I'll give you $4000 to let me shoot you in the chest with my lil pea shooter .32. Somehow I doubt you or anyone else with a brain would take me up on that offer.

Since there's "no such thing as stopping power", and "all handguns suck at stopping people"---why don't you shoot YOURSELF, in order to prove me "wrong".

I'm not stupid enough to let you shoot me with a BB pistol or a cheap slingshot, either. That doesn't mean any of them are good for self-defense against determined aggressors.

Common sense question:

If you were alone in the woods with only one handgun and six rounds of ammunition, and you were attacked by an enraged Grizzly Bear, would you rather have a 10mm or a .32?

 

[DrLaw]

despite all that empty room nonsense

Ever think about a mil surp or last century .32? You don't necessarily have to have something from the 21st century. I have an Ortgies .32 and like it. Also have a Mauser .380 HSc which I also like. If I could get at the right place at the right time, I would get a Colt .32, or a Walther PP in .32. All are fine guns.

The Doc is out now.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If you were alone in the woods with only one handgun and six rounds of ammunition, and you were attacked by an enraged Grizzly Bear, would you rather have a 10mm or a .32?

It wouldn't matter one bit as you'd be just as dead either way. As they say "file off the front sight"

Common sense question:

Dumb question! I wouldn't carry a handgun smaller than a S&W X frame to a place where grizzlies roam actually on second thought I wouldn't carry anything less powerful than a long gun. If you took anything smaller than a .44magnum to big bear country you had no common sense.

I guess you now think your 9mm/40/45 has enough "knockdown power" to stop a charging bruin.


Can't you go find someone else's thread to derail?

 

[Defensory]

Posted by Disaster:
No one with a brain will agree to stop a charging lion with a .22 if they are offered a choice between it and a .50 BMG.

BINGO! You nailed it.

If you were attacked by an enraged Grizzly Bear, would you rather have a .32 or a 10mm?

A .32 or a .357 Magnum?

A .32 or a .44 Magnum?

"All handguns suck at stopping people, therefore a .32 is just as good as anything else"---is a foolish and blatantly false premise.

 

[tigre]

Okay, some people don't care for .32s. Super.

I'm enjoying (most) of this conversation because I'm debating between the P32 and P3AT myself. It seems like the P32 might be the better choice though, if recoil really is much different between the two, because accuracy is probably even more important in a smaller caliber, and because you may well be firing more than once to stop a threat. And to that end, the P32 holds an extra round as well. Probably unlikely to make much difference, but it's something in a gun that has a relatively small capacity to begin with.

Anyways, I'm sure some people can conceal all sorts of hand cannons, but there's certainly a place for pocket pistols. Personally, I'm a petite female living in Florida, and unless I want to dress like a guy or put a gun in a purse (which I won't do) I'm going to be carrying something really small. Different people have different needs, and it seems like telling someone that what they really need is a .45 or whatever doesn't help much when that's not what they were looking for or asking about. I'm still not sure what bears or lions have to do with anything. If you're somewhere where large wild carnivores are a threat, you're probably not in a place where you're that worried about keeping a gun concealed so it's a completely different discussion.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by tigre:
Okay, some people don't care for .32s. Super.

I'm enjoying (most) of this conversation because I'm debating between the P32 and P3AT myself. It seems like the P32 might be the better choice though, if recoil really is much different between the two, because accuracy is probably even more important in a smaller caliber, and because you may well be firing more than once to stop a threat. And to that end, the P32 holds an extra round as well. Probably unlikely to make much difference, but it's something in a gun that has a relatively small capacity to begin with.

Anyways, I'm sure some people can conceal all sorts of hand cannons, but there's certainly a place for pocket pistols. Personally, I'm a petite female living in Florida, and unless I want to dress like a guy or put a gun in a purse (which I won't do) I'm going to be carrying something really small. Different people have different needs, and it seems like telling someone that what they really need is a .45 or whatever doesn't help much when that's not what they were looking for or asking about.

Who's recommending a "hand cannon"?! I recommended a pocket sized 9mm. Hardly a "cannon".

There's very little size difference between some of the new pocket 9mm's and the feeble .32's, and the 9mm gives you substantially more proven stopping power.

The difference in recoil is quite negligible, and 9mm ammo is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than .32 ammo. For people on a tight budget, they'll be able to shoot more with the 9mm, thus becoming more proficient with their firearm.

The discussion about bears and lions was necessary to establish the FACT that there is a CONSIDERABLE difference in stopping power between puny rounds like the .32 and powerful rounds like the 10mm etc.

The .32 is remarkably poor at stopping human attackers, much less large wild animals.

 

[R.W.Dale]

There's very little size difference between some of the new pocket 9mm's and the feeble .32's, and the 9mm gives you substantially more proven stopping power.

I disagree. When you compare side by side in real life the current crop of tiny locked breach pocket guns to the current crop of mini 9s there is a huge difference in size and weight. Much like comparing a full sized 1911 to a commander

Shure 9's are now the size of .380 ppk style handguns

but now 32's and 380's are the size of yesteryears .25's

 

[tigre]

Who's recommending a "hand cannon"?! I recommended a pocket sized 9mm. Hardly a "cannon".

The world doesn't revolve around you. Someone else mentioned being able to carry a full sized pistol all year, and I've heard plenty of other people say similar things in discussions about smaller caliber pistols. That's fine for them, but not for everyone. That's why this thread was about .32 vs .380, I would imagine. For me, the size and weight difference between a PM9 and one of the smaller Kel-Tecs would make the difference between being able to carry in a pocket and having to carry IWB with a long shirt in order to cover it. Maybe it's not a lot of difference to you, but it is to some other people. And I'll take a .32 or .380 that I can carry no matter what I'm wearing over the larger gun that I left at home any day of the week.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Once again a thread is locked because a couple of posters cannot go by THR standards...