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Pointed Bullets in a Lever gun....

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by HB, Oct 5, 2008.

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  1. HB

    HB Member

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    For so long it has been said that pointed bullets in a tube magazine can cause some big problems, but is there any cases of a round going off because of the primer being popped by the bullet behind it?
    It seems highly unlikely that a lead tipped bullet could set off a primer just by the force of recoil, or even a fall from a treestand :uhoh: Lead is a very soft metal and it would seem that the lead would deform before around could be fired....

    Anybody want to make some dummy rounds (NO POWDER) with a live primer, put them in a small diameter pipe and drop them out a window :D

    I just have a hard time believing that the above situation could occur. That being said, I have no reason to more than 2 pointed rounds while hunting, one in the mag and one in the pipe

    HB
     
  2. sargenv

    sargenv Member

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    Ok, say that the lead will deform.. what about FMJ's? Copper is a LOT harder than lead. Besides, pointed bullets don't really play a factor in lever guns mostly due to the situation that you will rarely if ever use them beyond 200 yards. I would think most people who are using a lever gun are working at "woods" ranges as opposed to the western wide open country where you would likely pick a bolt gun.

    Another argument against pointed bullets in a lever gun (save box magazine fed guns) is that for certain cartridges (30-30 for instance) pointed bullets will generally fail to completely "mushroom" since they are constructed for higher power rounds like the 308 and 30-06. The blunt nosed bullets meant for those cartridges will likely open up better in the limited velocity situations that you'd see in those cartridges.

    YMMV :)
     
  3. Tully M. Pick

    Tully M. Pick Member

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    Putting pointed bullets in tubular magazines is a real bad idea. Hornady's Leverevolution ammo gives you the ability fire pointed ammo and skip the whole chain fire phenomenon, which is very real.
     
  4. texfed

    texfed Member

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    Ever drop a lead tipped round on the garage floor by accident...I have and the tip was deformed.....No, I definitely wouldn't run pointed tip rounds in a tube magazine....I figure that the people that built the rifle know more than I do, when they tell you not to in the manual!
     
  5. HB

    HB Member

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    That is kind of my point. I don't see how a round could go off with the force of a low drop or the force of recoil. The cartiges weight very little, so the force would be little on each round. It's not like the round is in free fall either though, it is trapped in the mag.

    Just don't factory load them like they do now with pointed bullets. That is a legit concern though, I could see a FMJ setting on off it the fall is VERY high...

    Thanks for the replies, I won't do the above until I test it, or might not even bother.
    HB
     
  6. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Rifle magazine did a fairly thorough review of this a while back, and conclusively demonstrated that pointy bullets can set off other cartridges in a tubular magazine.
     
  7. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I took the articles results differently

    They seemed to prove there is a real possibility of ignition shooting FMJ RN bullets in handgun cartridge carbines because the straight walled cases will line up end to end.

    But lay some 30-30 ammo in a line on the table and even when loaded with spitzers it's obvious that bullet tips and primers would never line up.

    then if by some freak chance a round did get set off the mag tube on a rifle isn't nearly sealed enough to build the pressure required for an explosion, the worst you'd end up with would be a mess to clean up.

    and what about using plastic tipped bullets much like the hornady SST or B-tip?



    I don't want to be the guinea pig who finds out for certain, but any time I think through this logically I come to the conclusion that this is most likely a myth from a bygone era.

    Much like the open windows for a tornado garbage we were told many years ago
     
  8. woof

    woof Member

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    How often does a der hunter need more than two shots? Just load one in the chamber and one in the tube. As for the argument that the bullets won't expand at the lower velocity, a >30-30 round at 50 yds has the same velocity as a .30-06 round way out there somewhere, where deer are shot with the .30-06.
     
  9. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

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    Years ago before the Internet I saw a few pictures at the rifle range in San Leandro of a 30-30 that had a mag tube detention and the shooters hand and arm. The gun was screwed and there was quite a bit of blood. He was shooting reloads with pointed bullets.
     
  10. qajaq59

    qajaq59 Member

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    It's kind of like being hit by a bus.
    You could go all your life and never have it happen. But if it does.... it'll definitely ruin your day.
     
  11. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Lead may be a soft metal, but there are different hardnesses of lead depending on the lead you are using. Copper is harder, no doubt, but you are also talking about thin copper.

    Funny thing...steel is harder than lead and yet I can shoot lead through steel. Wow, how is that possible, eh? The lead should deform before passing through, right?

    So the lead deforms some. Does that mean it won't dent the copper primer and cause it to ignite?

    I don't think you have quite reasoned out all the factors of the problem.

    I don't know. Ask the ones that have had to fend off a bear and see.
     
  12. Cohibra45

    Cohibra45 Member

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    Why is this even an actual thought. Even if there is a remote possibility of something like that happening, wouldn't you want to avoid it. Remember, there are a lot of people that read these posts and never write. What if some half brain reads this and says to his brother that he read that someone questioned the ability to use 'pointy' bullets in his uncles old 30/30. The other nitwit loads some spitzer bullets in his uncles 30/30 and gives it to his nephew of 14 to go deer huntin'...bad day in the woods!!!:eek:

    Like I said, even the remotest ideas seem to get out there. Be smart and if you want to use 'pointy' bullets, load the new plastic tipped Hornadys!!!;)
     
  13. Neckshot5seven

    Neckshot5seven member

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    lets take a gasoline shower and shoot bottle rockets at eachother..... It may happen, but there is a chance.... If you want pointed bullets in a 30-30 then get an Encore or a Ruger #1
     
  14. TehK1w1

    TehK1w1 Member

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    I seem to recall that Buffalo Bore actually had to switch to small rifle primers in their 'magnum' 45-70 loads(they make their own cases.) Seems they had experienced recoil-fires caused by the flat-point bullets hitting the primers and setting them off. Remember, the cartridges are staggered slightly in the magazine due to the pressure of the spring, and the rim of the cartridge means there is room at the front of the case to move up or down.

    If your want to use pointed bullets in a lever action, use a gun designed for it such as a Savage 99 or a BLR, or at least use Leverevolution ammo.
     
  15. Gottahaveone

    Gottahaveone Member

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    I understand your intuition there, but primers are a funny thing. I have had exactly one detonate during the reloading process. I was using a Lee turret mounted priming system and at some point had gotten a flake of powder on the primer ram. As I gently applied the pressure to seat a primer, BLAM. After I got down from the ceiling, I looked at the shell and there was just about enough of a dent to actually see in the primer, and the offending grain of powder was still sitting on the ram. That was a slow compression and not a sudden impact like recoil would be, and it still fired off anyway. Better safe than sorry :)
     
  16. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Well, not exactly. What they showed is that with straight cases, where the bullet tip definitely rests against the primer in front, if a round goes off, other rounds will go off.

    The damage was minimal, and they never did succeed in making a round go off by recoil.
     
  17. woof

    woof Member

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    If you need more than two shots to hunt deer because of bear attacks, I suppose that explains why we never see any single shot rifles - the bears ate their owners.
     
  18. TehK1w1

    TehK1w1 Member

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    woof, that's a valid idea, but I for one would forget and at some point load it with 2 or more in the magazine. Besides, why limit yourself?
     
  19. ziggy222

    ziggy222 Member

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    press that lead bullet tip into your arm and you'll see how hard it can be.besides that,primers are very thin.you can however buy pointed bullets designed for tubular magazines now.they have soft rubber tips that will not set off a primer.i think its made by hornady
     
  20. jordan1948

    jordan1948 Member

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    Well it must have happened before to some ppl otherwise it would just be a myth
     
  21. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    but if it happened there would be pics or reports SOMEWHERE. Thus far no one has been able to dig up anything solid.

    If a Glock Kbooms all by itself alone in a forest within the hour pictures of the event are posted on at least 90% of the gunboards on the net
     
  22. Shawnee

    Shawnee member

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    The "knowledge" about pointy bullets being dangerous in a tube magazine goes back to at least the 1920s. Perhaps it is true - perhaps it was more likely back 90-100 years ago (maybe primers were different) than it is now - and perhaps it is an old wives' tale that modern day gun-industry corporate lawyers (and/or marketing lizards) deem advisable to keep alive.

    :confused:
     
  23. MikeD999999

    MikeD999999 Member

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    I know a man who is missing the ends of three of his fingers from exactly what you are talking about. Kent Lomont of Lomont Precision Bullets in Idaho. http://www.klomont.com/

    He was shooting a tube magazine rifle with pointy tipped rounds and the recoil set off ALL the rounds in the tube. He told me so himself and showed me his hand.

    Call him and ask him about it. I sure he'd warn you against it.

    Mike D.
     
  24. Shawnee

    Shawnee member

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    Yeow ! :eek: That'll be one fellow who will need no more convincing.

    Makes a good case for not "daring the Devil".

    :cool:
     
  25. Floppy_D

    Floppy_D Member In Memoriam

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    I'll bring the beer. :D
     
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