Police apologize to Knoxville gun owner for stopping him

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Drizzt, Sep 23, 2007.

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  1. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Does TN have a statute against "inciting unrest"???:confused:

    Master, embellishment and puffery are common in police reports as well.:)

    You don't believe him, which is your choice. However, the Knoxville Police Department believed him and that convinces me.;)
     
  2. SuperNaut

    SuperNaut Member

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    Okay Pax, I've read Lawdog's comments and while eloquent are IMHO another variation of the "isolated incident" mantra.

    I don't buy that anymore.
     
  3. billhilly66

    billhilly66 Member

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    If he threatened to “make up” something to arrest the guy for, he should be fired and probably charged. Surely they can “make up” something to charge him with.

    Threatening to make up reasons to charge someone should not be tolerated under any circumstances. Should your boss be able to make up reasons to fire you? How about the utilities companies making up reasons to charge you extra? (I know, it seems like they already do) Your kid’s teacher making up reasons to flunk him? Should your landlord be able to make up reasons to evict you?

    Getting arrested is a serious life changing event for most law abiding folks. The power to do so arbitrarily for made up reasons is something nobody should have.
     
  4. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    Hanging a cop out to dry isn't the same as disbelieving him, as my previous post hinted at.
     
  5. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I find his comments regarding internal affairs very educational.

    It's fascinating to see a cop reference "cop haters"... then express hatred for other cops.

    "Stop snitching" is just as unworthy coming from a cop as from guy with his ballcap on backwards and his shorts falling down.
     
  6. billhilly66

    billhilly66 Member

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    Cops who screw up ought to be hung out to dry. Everyone else who screws up is.

    What's the issue?
     
  7. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    But this is Gecko45, the original mall ninja. That makes this a little funny, despite the obvious liberty and rights concerns.
     
  8. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    Nice try but I didn't say I hate them. Besides, they're no more police officers than George W. Bush is a US Marine.

    He may be in the chain as Commander in Chief but he's not a Marine.
     
  9. chipperi

    chipperi Member

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    Had a conversation with a guy at work this morning about it, we are both very Pro gun and both have carry permits, and both live near Knoxville. We both agreed the cop was wrong and KPD failed to address all the issues. He presented a view worth thinking about. He said and I agree " how does someone forget they are carrying." He went as far as to say that Trevor was a young punk trying to push the limits of what is allowed. Here is how he came to his statement... Tn does not specifically allow open carry. However there is no law against it either. This was done on purpose so that people that exposed their sidearm, while reaching or printed wouldn't be subject to prosecution for brandishment. Now from all the media attention you know there is going to be a push in the state legislature to close that hole and forbid open carry. This will in turn allow any big headed cop who thinks that they are the only that should be allowed to carry, to nail anyone with a lump under their shirt with a trumped up crime. No Doubt this cop [email protected]#ed up and abused his powers,however Trevor may have opened a whole other can of worms.
     
  10. Tim Burke

    Tim Burke Member

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    Because he wasn't inciting unrest, he was simply minding his own business walking out of Wal-Mart. Is expecting a police officer to know the law inciting unrest? Or did the cop just not like his authority being questioned?
    Call BS on the story if you like, but since apparently there is audio, as well as witnesses, doing so casts more doubt on you than it does on the story. It's worth noting the the victim is not some faceless name on a page; at least one poster on this thread knows him personally.
    Suppose, for sake of discussion, TN was a state in which the concealed carry permit required the gun to be concealed, and failing to keep it concealed was, in fact, illegal. I would suggest that in that case, Officer Greene's response was still unduly rude and aggressive, even if he was at least enforcing the law as written. Would it not make more sense to just tell the CCW to keep it covered, once the officer had ascertained that the permit was valid? Even if Greene was right, I still have enough information to suspect he's a bully with a badge.
     
  11. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    I think you're misunderstanding me, Tim.

    He never falsified CHARGES. Colt WAS NOT charged, so the cop couldn't have possibly falsified them. You can't falsify something that doesn't exist.
     
  12. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    Let me put this bluntly: I know Trevor Putnam well. He is a man of good character. Confabulation of this sort is not in the young man's nature. Prior to this incident, he has always been pseudonymous on the internet. He came out with his real name to correct this injustice when he could have kept his mouth shut at no penalty to himself. (Remember, he wasn't even ticketed, so it's not like he's trying to get out of any charges.)

    You, on the other hand, are some guy with an all-caps screen name on an anonymous gun board someplace. The only reason I have to believe that you are in fact an LEO is your own word. Seven years of moderating gun boards has taught me that the most vociferous complainers about "cop bashing" and "you don't know how hard I have it dealing with these scum" are part-time reservists, jailers, and guys who drive around in old Chevy Luminas with green bubblegum machines on the dash and "Loss Prevention" badges.

    Given the facts presented thus far, can you blame me for believing who I do?

    Just sayin'.
     
  13. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    Tamara, you are absolutely right and I wouldn't even try to convince you otherwise.

    As long as the city treasurer keeps cutting me a check, though, I'm convinced I'm a cop. If I didn't think I'd need it I'd mail you my badge. I guess I could be some homeless junkie on a library computer though, couldn't I?

    As to Trevor's good character. That's all well and good that you know him, but way back when I posted something about people making themselves out to be blameless angels. I didn't say only bad people do it. Bad people just have reason to do it more often.

    I guess I had a better reputation on Packing.org (R.I.P.) See, there was this little story about a call at Sam's Club and a cop named Headlock...
     
  14. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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    Glad to see you back Tam!

    MOM stop trolling please.

    In every respected even revered profession the clowns will attract attention. Some ways it can be entertaining. Distracting in others. If it is a distraction what would they be hiding?

    I would imagine El Ts suite as he laid out above in post # 26 would be a good road to travel. Even if all monies other than legal fees where dropped after officer is charged.

    I have been told by an irritated cop from Irene TX to just be sure to show the next officer my gun so he knows I have it.

    That was for interrupting his pitch for a date on some cashier in a store.

    His chief standing there with him.
     
  15. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    O.K. how about I mail you all copies of my Dunkin' Donuts reciepts? I have to keep the originals as tax writeoffs.
     
  16. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Do cops do that?
     
  17. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    Yes.

    Did it strike you as coincidental that a judge, an impartial third party, is the one who makes the final decision as to guilt or innocence and not one of the people involved?
     
  18. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I see a lot of hostility toward other police officers on your part.

    I've seen this before, mostly in police officers who didn't think that they should be subject to the same laws as everyone else. I especially see it in cops who complain about other cops reporting misconduct by police.

    As I said, "Stop snitching!" sounds exactly the same, whether the guy who says it is blasting rap music from an Escalade or sitting in a police car. It's the death of civilization. Of course some people think they can profit from that...
     
  19. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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  20. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    You got me Deanimator.

    I'm really an evil badge-wearing bully interested only in collecting my six-figure paycheck and doing whatever I want without repercussion.

    And I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!
     
  21. Tim Burke

    Tim Burke Member

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    Uh, that was you that used those terms.
    And, finally, the post you were answering when you changed threatening to falsify charges to falsifying charges:
    None of us said Officer Greene falsified charges, so when you used the phrase to "falsify charges" to answer RoadkingLarry's post, I took it as shorthand for "threatening to falsify charges." Apparently I was mistaken, and you were propping up a strawman. I will stipulate that Officer Greene did not falsify any charges; he only threatened to do so.
    I believe the threat alone is sufficient to warrant termination... in the Human Resources sense of the word.
     
  22. frank23185

    frank23185 Member

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    Sometime, gentle readers, an apology is good enough.
    (Would have been more sincere if it had come from the officer involved)
     
  23. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    Apparently not Frank!

    Sometimes the only thing good enough the total destruction of your world as you know it, complete with displacement of your wife and kids when you're fired and can't afford the mortgage anymore.

    Sometimes I wonder if people know the implications of what they're asking.
     
  24. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    ThereThere seems to be some things that need to be cleared up so that everyone is talking about the same thing.

    TN doesn't have an "open carry" provision in the law because it isn't needed. TN's HCP is just that, a handgun carry permit. Open or concealed. The original law was a concealed carry law and carry advocates in TN worked very hard to get it converted to a straight carry permit where it didn't matter if your gun was showing or not. That's not a hole to be closed, that's a hole that existed that we closed by pushing the HCP over the CCP. Under the law as it has been for years, it doesn't matter in TN that your pistol is or isn't showing.

    No where is it said he forgot he had his gun on him. Where that comes from I can't even imagine.

    Officer Greene didn't know about Trevor until he walked past him exiting the WalMart. No one in the store called the police.

    Officer Greene threatened to arrest Trevor on a made up charge. That's recorded on his cruiser tapes.

    Trevor was never arrested or charged. Another LEO set Officer Greene straight on the actual law and the simple fact that Trevor had broken no law.

    For the whole time Officer Greene has been serving on the KPD, TN has had a HCP and not a CCP.

    Officer Greene claims that he confused the laws in his prior state of employment as a LEO with the law in TN. He claims that Ohio doesn't allow open carry and that he confused the law with TN law (This in spite of the facts that he's worked in TN for nearly 7 years and even that Ohio does allow for open carry.)

    Trevor didn't go to the news nor did he make a stink about it. He didn't even talk it around. He hasn't made himself out to be some martyr or outlaw. He followed official channels and filed a complaint with the KPD. The KPD reviewed the audio tapes of the encounter (remember Officer Greene was being taped to his cruiser recorder the whole time) and the statement of the other LEO and Officer Greene was disciplined as a result of the Internal Affairs investigation. Trevor received a written apology from the KPD Chief of Police. The tapes of Officer Greene's behavior made the case against Officer Greene. That ain't being hung out to dry by your department.

    Tam and I know Trevor. He never made an issue about the incident. He simply followed the law in all particulars from the time he left work and went into WalMart to the day the KPD Chief of Police disciplined Officer Greene and issued a written apology for the officer's behavior.

    This is an incident involving misbehavior on the part of a single officer. The reason that Officer Greene didn't go so far as to arrest Trevor on some fictional charge is that another LEO corrected his mistake and reigned him in. That officer's statement along with the tapes and Trevor's complaint led to disciplinary action being taken against Officer Greene.

    http://knoxnews.com/news/2007/sep/22/gun-owner-receives-apology/
     
  25. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Not when physical violence and the threat of a crime are involved.

    If the victim had battered the officer then threatened to file a false official report that the officer had sexually assaulted him, what do you think should have been done to HIM?
     
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