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Police attitudes toward open carry

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Lou McGopher, Feb 10, 2010.

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  1. ElToro

    ElToro Member

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    see a screen shot of teh facebook "joke" here before he took it down.

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=267601

    so he jokes about killing people and getting 2 weeks off. sorry pal, your a cop you ARE held to a higher standard. you dont make jokes abou that. plenty others have been investigated for saying a lot less on their "private" socaila network page.

    also his use of "turds" if you are not form the bay area, you may not know that East Palo Alto is oneof the worst towns, crimewise teh population is largely balck and hispanic and other minority. very few if any whites live there. so is his use of "turd" a term for people of color ? i would posit that many who could not get hired most any other local department get hired at EPAPD.

    substitute pro 2A person for LGBT or black or anything else and see how funny it is ?

    as pointed out, if this clown is ever involved in a shooting, any defense attorny worth 2 cents is going to have this guy roasted for these comments.
     
  2. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    TNboy,

    In California counties like Contra Costa where I live and several others, CCW permits are NOT issued to us peones. Unloaded open carry with ammo on the belt (or pocket) is legal.

    The events that led to the detective's comments were intended as political protests rather than self defense.
     
  3. FenderTK421

    FenderTK421 Member

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    I only OC when I am headed to the boonies. OC seems like you are giving up the only advantage you have in carrying a weapon; the element of surprise - and likely makes you the first mark, even worse than the most blatant SMF gear. That being said; I think most of us (especially me) are shirking our duties and NEED to carry OC every once in a while. Police and other Citizens need to see it, become accustomed to it, and know it's OK.
     
  4. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    Folks, this case and the surrounding issues take place in CALIFORNIA. All the freedoms you may have with your CCW in your state are fantastic. However, those freedoms DO NOT APPLY HERE IN THIS CASE.

    A very few number of citizens in California have the option to "just carry concealed, man." So, let's go ahead and remove that option from this discussion, and let's proceed accordingly.

    In California, unloaded open carry is a viable and attractive alternative if you absolutely want/need to carry a handgun. It's legal, and there are ways to carry in this manner and still have a useful self-defense tool. Points such as "giving up the element of surprise" and "acting macho" are not too relevant here.

    The important thing is that open carrying is, for most people, the only legal option for carrying a handgun in California. Thus, the statements by the bad cop are particularly egregious because they strike at the heart of the ONLY legal option.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  5. Gungnir

    Gungnir Member

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    Hmm... he's kinda shot himself in the foot.

    Dunno whether this has been posted in the thread, I didn't see it through my scan
    [email protected]

    If anyone wants to discuss Detective Rod Tuason's commentary on Facebook with the City of East Palo Alto.

    Now I've open carried a number of times, here in AK for practical purposes and formerly in Washington. Never had an issue, as to why, I'd respond why not? A right un-exercised is a right lost.

    Part of the issue that non-gun owners have is that the only time they see a gun is either on TV or the movies, in the hands of a criminal or in the hands of security forces (Police, Military and Security guards). People who know nothing about guns are afraid of them because they've seen what they do in the movies, or heard about police shootouts, or crimes where people were shot. So people who see a gun on someone who is not a cop, or a criminal and certainly isn't in a movie, who's just minding their own business, it might reduce the fear. Sure some people get offended, others don't, those who get offended well too bad for them, they're never going to support the second amendment anyway, unless they experience something where they wished they had a gun.

    By hiding guns from people, we end up as social outcasts in the real sense of the word, because having guns becomes aberrant. When that happens then the Federales can enact any control they want, and the only people to complain are the gun owners, who are not a significant voting block in the overall scheme of things. Shocking thing this happened, in the early 20th century in England. At the turn of the 20th century it was as easy to walk into a store in London and buy a gun as it was in any US city. Over the next 90 years gun restrictions have become so tight they squeak when they walk, people there don't even know they once had the same rights to gun ownership and self defense as Americans. Over time little by little gun owners became socially unacceptable and gun ownership slid from the public conscious, until they were equated with criminals.

    As far as criminals targeting someone armed, well that's pretty laughable. Why would they, when there are thousand of other targets available to them who aren't. I mean would you risk your life for maybe maximum $500 and change (and of course the gun) when you can get $500 and change from someone else, and go to Slick Eddies and buy an illegal gun $200 over retail? Criminals aren't that stupid, they work on the rule of unfair advantage. One final point on criminals, it was mentioned before, surprise is an offensive tactic, not defensive.
     
  6. TexasBill

    TexasBill Member

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    This cop isn't the only problem; a number of district (county) attorneys in California have set policies that make OC checks as confrontational as possible, including the LEO approaching with drawn weapons, to create the maximum embarrassment for a person who is only exercising their rights under California law. In addition, from a simple check to see if the firearm is unloaded, which is what the law originally intended, the stop has extended to a search of the the databases to see if the gun has been reported stolen or used in a crime, doing a wants/warrants check on the carrier, and even arrests for carrying the unloaded gun, even though the officer knows the charges cannot be sustained and the arrest is technically illegal. In addition, every cop who sees you can run you through the entire process, even if he just witnessed another cop doing it. There's no limit to the fun and it very effectively reinforces the public's impression that carrying a gun is illegal, which is not true.

    How can those who wish to exercise their rights change things so they can do soo without harassment? That's a toughie. Big marches and protests with hundreds of people carrying sidearms are probably out of the question; it would most likely arouse the same response as the radicals who visited the California legislature provoked back in the 1960s. Previously, Californians could open carry a loaded gun but the Nervouis Nellies in Sacramento changed the law so that only an unloaded gun could be carried or displayed. Incidentally, Ronald Reagan signed that bill into law.

    Unfortunately, California's current Republican governor doesn't seem to be too interested in Second Amendment rights, judging by some of the legislation he has approved.

    So it's going to be up to individuals and small groups to be persistent and to endure the official attempts at repression. Maybe we could start busing loads of RKBA supporters to the No-Right-To-Bear State to augment their numbers. Maybe stars like Tom Selleck or Chuck Norris, who're big in the NRA, could add some high-profile muscle to the movement.

    I'd like to have the choice to OC; Texas doesn't allow it. It's more comfortable than an IWB or pancake holster that sticks the gun butt in my ribs. I can also position the firearm where I want it, which is with the grip about belt-high. I am also tired of being concerned about "printing" anytime I have to bend at the waist. And if we have to have a license, I'd like to see it become more like the process to get a driver's license. Pass the course, get vetted by a NICS and state records check, and get your temporary permit. They really don't need to spend six months checking you out; you're not asking for Top Secret clearance to work on nuclear weapons.

    I think Vermont's got it right: carry open or concealed and don't do anything bad with the firearm. Every state should have 100% reciprocity with Vermont.
     
  7. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    the 800 pound gorilla in the room

    Geez, thanks for the civilized discussion.

    the attitude of law enforcement is out of our control. we do have the opportunity to control the face we put on open carry. many do well with this. a certain very visible/loud minority do not. and they are what folks remember.
     
  8. GunsAmerica Fan

    GunsAmerica Fan Member

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  9. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Some would consider that "cop bashing".
     
  10. sharpshooter74

    sharpshooter74 Member

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  11. Kpdpipes

    Kpdpipes Member

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    Oh yeah, this is the "High Road" allright.....

     
  12. Stophel

    Stophel Member

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    "To those who open carry, are your encounters with the police generally positive/negative/okay?"

    I rarely open carry (I never go anywhere...), but I have been seen by local law enforcement with a pistol on me. They didn't bat an eye. Here in KY, the state recognizes the RIGHT of a person to openly carry arms, and law enforcement is generally aware of this, and it's pretty common knowledge among the people as a whole (though it is actually pretty rare to see someone with a gun here). Most rural/semi-rural places here you won't have a problem (other than with ignorant store clerks who don't want you in their store and think you must be breaking some non-existant law). I understand some OC'ers in Louisville do get harassed by cops...though there is legally nothing they can do.
     
  13. StarDust1

    StarDust1 Member

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    Two things, one, open carry is LEGAL in Sconny, two, the brainwashing is your own! The facts are irrefutable, YOU had to ask permission to both buy, and then carry your gun, you can dress that up anyway you wish too, but the fact remains that you had to ASK, and that by definition makes it a privilege...
     
  14. StarDust1

    StarDust1 Member

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    "Ahh" guess again!
     
  15. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Everyone, I think we need to stop bashing on StarDust1 for his statement. He is stating a fact that is true in too many states in America. He never once said that is the way he felt about, we was simply stating the way it actually IS in many states.

    And many gun owners are guilty of being content and satisfied with a system that requires a person to PAY for training, to PAY for a background check and to PAY for State's PERMISSION to "exerciese" their "right" to carry a gun.

    The fact that in Washington state I cannot carry a handgun ready for self defense in a vehicle without paying the State for permission means that my 2nd amendment right has become a privilidge - whether I like it or not. OK, let's put it this way, my 2nd amendment right has become illegal to exercise - how about that.

    AND, I will add, that when we make statements such as "I am exercising my second ammendment right" by carrying under the conditions of permission granted by the State, that we actually PAY to obtain no less, we are deluding ourselves and we are hurting the RKBA cause by that claim. We need to call a spade a spade and say, "I am exercising a privilege that I paid the State money for."
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  16. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    Links not opening.

    Ah, had to use a backdoor method to get actual url. Not seeing carry related items.
     
  17. StarDust1

    StarDust1 Member

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    Actually most of the rank & file are just fine with your right to carry, the animosity is generated from above and trickles down via inappropriate training concepts that are the fruits of the "war on drugs!"
    These have resulted in a very, very predictable "us against them" mentality at certain levels of LE, it often manifests in exactly the manor that the OP has noted...
     
  18. Lou McGopher

    Lou McGopher Member

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    This is good advice, as has been demonstrated numerous times by open carriers (and others) who had the foresight to use a video or audio recorder during their encounters with police. Whether you love or hate cops, whether you think they're mostly good or mostly bad, the truth is they're paid to do a job, and the duties of that job sometimes conflict with your interests and natural rights.

    Cops have some leeway in how they approach enforcement of the laws. We ought to find a way to encourage a more positive, less confrontational approach when dealing with gun carriers.
     
  19. Paints

    Paints Member

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    Sometimes it's more comfortable. Concealed can be more difficult during warm weather and outdoor activities.

    A real good reason for open carry, IMO, is to let citizens and police know that honest law abiding people can carry firearms without "blood running in the streets". Way too often, the only time most people see guns is on "News at 11" and then they only associate guns with criminals. We sometimes need to come out from under our rocks and let people know that honest citizens have guns for legitimate reasons.

    Just this week, a city in NE Ohio settled a lawsuit for an undisclosed sum and agreed to train it's police that open carry is legitimate and hassling people is illegal.

    The only time I've encountered law enforcement while open carrying was with a state park ranger. He didn't comment at all.

    Ken
     
  20. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    That's because he's not really a Republican, he's a Kennedy (look it up)
     
  21. Good_to_go

    Good_to_go member

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    A man with no name

    Heck if I was a sherif in da old west I wouldn't worry. You just have to be savy, quick, and have a battle buddy wid a scatter gun. However, if someone happens to be a numb nut jaq off who is a law man then he will probably git dead or be a crooked one. At least thats how it is in da movies.
     
  22. jahwarrior

    jahwarrior Member

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    press 1 for english, press 2 for memespeak......;)
     
  23. Full Metal Jacket

    Full Metal Jacket member

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    hiding in your bushes
    so according to you, the 19th century never happened.
     
  24. thriftyjoe

    thriftyjoe Member

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    It scarry!!!!

    California LEO's are not versed in open carry laws!

    Most of them probably never handled a gun before joining the department. In addition in their private life most of them probably don't have friends or family that own guns

    I would be very scared about open carrying in California ... it's dangerous
     
  25. pbearperry

    pbearperry Member

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    I have owned guns and carried since 1965.I have never felt the need to open carry and my carrying doesen't bother anyone because they do not know I am carrying.I have also been on blood pressure meds that make me have to urinate often,and the same folks in public don't know that either because I don't walk around with my penis out just in case.Nobody here will ever convince me that open carry will keep me safer.All it will do is worry folks that don't like guns and cause me problems.Open carry at campsites or out in the desert gives me no concern.Open carry on Main St. does.
     
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