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Police Beating in New Orleans Caught on Tape #2 Constructive Criticism ONLY

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Pietro Beretta, Oct 10, 2005.

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  1. Pietro Beretta

    Pietro Beretta Member

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    Originally Posted by NightFall
    The Original Post was locked, because of the Anti-LEO antics. I would like to discuss this, please don't get this locked again... Thanks.
     
  2. Pietro Beretta

    Pietro Beretta Member

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    If the man was drunk in public, that is infact breaking the law. If he resisted getting arrested thats again breaking the law.

    We dont see the begining of the tape, the camera is turned on half way through the arrest. All we see is an african american man pinned to the wall, 1 second later he his hit in the head by an officer several times, they then get him to the ground to make the arrest.

    If hitting the man in the head after he was pinned to the wall was "Necessary force" then so be it, the man was breaking the law. (However I dont think that was necessary from what I can see, they already had him pinned to the wall)

    The thing that is 100% illegal, is when one of the officers goes up to a member of the AP and grabs him, and verbally abuses the Assoicated Press guy. The Leo saying "ive been here for 6 weeks trying to keep you guys alive, go home" (or something to that effect)
     
  3. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    sorry

    I am afraid what we will see is LEO getting defensive
    and people with bad experiences with LEO getting
    abusive. Seen it too many times to expect anything
    constructive. Please prove me wrong.
     
  4. Pietro Beretta

    Pietro Beretta Member

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    Hey Guy I said
    Now was that constructive in anyway to this conversation, No.


    I thought we could be adults here, with a central point of view on this subject. I know how constructive can you be about this topic, but NO BLATENT LEO BASHING!
     
  5. Kjervin

    Kjervin Member

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    In this case, since there is a video, the officers will be investigated and be held responsible for any wrongdoing (we hope). I'm not sure how much constructively can be said. I would hope it wold be an issue even in the abscence of a video, but I guess you could research to find out if that is the case. For instance, how many cases are followed up where there is no videotape? If there are none we can conclude that either the videographer was lucky, or they don't investigate unless there is proof. If there are, if means that the department takes notice of citizen complaints. I suspect it varies from department to department. In this case, we can only hope that justice done, whatever it turns out to be.

    I am not sure, however, that it is reasonable to start a thread where multiple police officers (rightly or wrongly) injure a person and not expect people to respond emotionally. I suspect most people don't like to see police injure the public. In fact, I believe most police officers feel the same way.

    Kj
     
  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    hey

    I was hoping to challenge constructive posts.
     
  7. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Just take a trip over to the forums at officer.com and you can hear from those that actually have valid opinions.

    It seems to me they are saying if you are drunk on the street and don't comply with those in charge, expect to get hit in the head a few times. It's really as simple as that.
     
  8. Kjervin

    Kjervin Member

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    I think the question then becomes are you getting hit in the head to get you under control and place you in custody, or are you getting hit in the head because you made the officer break a sweat (or even threatened them)? the way you answer that question says a lot. I would support the former, but would have serious concerns about the latter. I'm not sure the police should get extra licks in to "teach" you not to resist in future. That's twhat the resisting arrest charge is for, right?

    Kj
     
  9. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Just call it a "compliance strike" and you can hit them whenever and however many times you want.

    (yes, I'm being sarcastic but it does seem that is what a number of police believe.)
     
  10. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Safe bet: No one criticising the officers trying to arrest the
    resisting drunk EVER has had to try arrest a resisting drunk.
    Safer bet: If they did, they would probably botch it too.

    I will agree the officer responding to the AP reporter
    went overboard, but I have not been under 6 weeks of
    of that kind of stress and have no idea what I would do.

    Police training ought to include training to ignore the
    yelping poodles of the media; officers should not be
    distracted by mere nuisances. The media had the right
    to videotape what was happening public and should have
    been ignored as long as they were not obstructing
    the officers.

    And don't lose sight of this: if the drunk had complied
    and not resisted, we would not have heard of this.

    If cops were as perfect as their critics, what a wonderful
    world it would be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2005
  11. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    I see a big problem for the ( )who hit that guy.
    Yellow is the word I use for them and I hope they rot in HELL!
    I would bet the guy who got hit might of been locked up longer than the guys who beat him were.
    I see no difference in the gang mentality of the brave cops who beat Rodney King and the brave ( )who beat this guy.

    I will not compare bad apples to good apples because it means squat.
    When anyone breaks someones civil rights like that they deserve everything the goverment can throw at them. The more the goverment turns their heads from punishing thugs and murderers that commit crimes even in front of the camera is a sick goverment.
    Maybe with any luck since they also happened to attack a camera crew this one will not be forgotten so quickly.

    The first thing they need to do is remove their rights to own a firearm.
    I hope that covers the need to talk about guns here.
     
  12. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

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    Yet another example of where we, the private citizens, can watch the system "in action" and judge accordingly.

    I'll first note, the officers currently are not being held to the same standard as any other citizen. So, it definately is off to a poor start.
     
  13. M-Rex

    M-Rex member

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    Cool. 11 posts until the subtle cop bashing started. Excellent job.


    Bearing in mind that all a viewer has to go on is a few seconds of edited video; if the officers are found to have used more force than was necessary, then they they should be disciplined accordingly. The officer who grabbed the AP reporter looked to me like he lost his temper and 'crossed a line'. IMHO, he should be disciplined for his actions.
     
  14. Biker

    Biker Member

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    I watched the video. One thing that came to mind is, if the cops were doing nothing wrong, why did the mounted cop try to block the camera's view of the encounter?
    Number two: I can understand frustration. I may have wanted to punch the old man out too, I wasn't there to see what precipitated the whole mess, but *I* don't get paid *not* to punch old men out and me and my Bros, if we sunk to that level, would be in jail right now for doing so, and rightfully so.
    I'm not a cop-basher, but I call 'em as I see 'em.
    Biker
     
  15. Mr_Moore

    Mr_Moore member

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    Maybe it looked worse than it was.

    From

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1819745,00.html

    "Davis, who is black, suffered a swollen left eye and cuts."

    I didn't hear anything about permanent damage. I think this indicates that the officers were using some restraint. They could have easily hurt him seriously.
     
  16. Biker

    Biker Member

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    We don't know that he wasn't hurt seriously first of all, and secondly, who released that report? That they used "some restraint" is commendable, I guess. :scrutiny:
    Biker
     
  17. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

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    Good point.

    I don't think the being a LE should entitle you to a "get out of Jail free" pass. I would love to see how this plays out in court. But most likely this 64 year old man will now be one of America's new millionares.

    Real losers here are the citizens of NO, who now have to pay to fight any upcoming litigation. And we all know what kind of financial situation they are in. :(
     
  18. M-Rex

    M-Rex member

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    Quite right. LEO's are held to a higher standard. If an officer uses too much force, the officer can be charged with 'assault under color of authority', or 'violating a citizen's civil rights'. After this, the officer will be disciplined departmentally. Most likely, he'll be fired. THEN...after this, the civil litigation begins, which will include the deep pockets of whatever agency formerly employed the officer.

    If joe citizen stomps on someone's neck, it's just called 'kicking someone's a**'. The citizen *may* go to court, *may* be punished, and *may* be sued.
     
  19. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    I see a resisting drunk being subdued by officers.

    I see one officer who assaulted a media employee. The fact that he is a police officer is of no relevance unless one wishes to argue that a police officer should be held to a higher standard than a private citizen. I do not believe that to be the law at present, however.

    I do believe that he should be charged , tried, and-if convicted-sentenced in the same way that a private citizen would be in the same situation. The events experienced by the police officer in the past six weeks should be considered by the jury and the judge in the same manner that such circumstances would be considered for a private citizen.

    In any event, the cop who assaulted the producer doesn't need to be a cop. He obviously can't handle the stress and years of such stress could severely damage his physical and psychological health.
     
  20. phoglund

    phoglund Member

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    It's a bit hard to comment because we don't know the whole story, like what happened before the taping started. I think if you resist the cops you should pretty much expect to get hurt. On the other hand I think if there are 3 - 4 cops and one old man the situation should have been able to be handled without multiple punches (er..."compliance strikes") to the head. Officers are trained in restraint tactics and I assume in techniques to pin even combative suspects without striking them excessively. After all, even though the suspect was attempting to avoid arrest, I don't see anywhere on the tape where he was attempting to strike the officers. In a one on one conflict or where weapons are involved all bets are off because there is no telling what a suspect will do if he wins the confrontation and has the cop at his mercy.

    I think it fairly obvious the cop who assaulted the media weenie should be disciplined. Whether we like the media or not they are our eyes and ears on the world, if the authorities are allowed to assault them for keeping us informed we are in big trouble.

    Bottom line, if I had to judge these officers solely on the information currently available I would internally discipline the officer who threw the punches and require additional training on how to subdue without striking. The other officers would be offered training as well. The officer who assaulted the media guy would be disciplined internally, receive additional training on the rights of the media, be required to apologize to the man he assaulted, and be required to face battery charges only if the man assaulted wanted to press charges on the incident.

    Disclaimer: I am not or have never been an officer of the law. I have never attempted to arrest a combative drunk. I have however fought young, strong, healthy men to compliance. I think I could choose any two of my male training companions and without much trouble subdue most individuals one is likely to run into. I think we should hold professional law enforcement officers to a similar standard.


    P.S. Hats off to the NO police that continue to serve under these conditions. To those who abandon their posts or turned to looting, I hope they get what they deserve!
     
  21. modifiedbrowning

    modifiedbrowning Member

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    Anybody have a link to the video, I googled but can't find it.
    Thanks.
     
  22. Pietro Beretta

    Pietro Beretta Member

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    I know they have the Video on MSNBC.com

    Seriously though, if someone does not want to be arrested, its going to take more then 1 LEO (unless he uses his baton or brute force/tazer/mace) to subdue the perp. Evin a 90lbs crack whore, will put up enough of a fight to require a couple of LEOs to take her down, withought using Tazer/mace/baton.

    Honestly I dont think the hitting was required, I believe they had enough men to arrest him withought the hits to the head. However he broke the law, had he not broken the law, then he wouldnt have been in that situation, he may have deserved everything he got, including the punches.... its hard to say withought a full tape, and a 2nd point of view.

    I agree

    (Thanks for the good discussion guys)
     
  23. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Pietro
    You state that if the old man hadn't broken the law, "he wouldn't have been in that situation" intimating that he "may have deserved everything he got, including the punches". It appears that the cops broke the law. Would they deserve to be held and punched? It appears so, according to your logic. Or are they above the law?
    Biker
     
  24. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

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    Really???

    Not even going into the "druken 64 year old" (who, if his lawyer is telling the truth, wasn't even drunk and has been "dry" for years now). How do you justify hitting the new reporter. Think if average Joe Blow were to push a reporter into the car and hit him in the ribs. That Joe Blow guy wouldn't be sitting in jail right now on aggrevated assault?

    Where's that LE right now?
     
  25. Amusetec

    Amusetec Member

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    Yea Right they are! :what:
    I fell threatened and I just put my hand on my gun I go to jail. Cop feels threatned and he shots the guy who has no gun and he is held up as a hero. ok where is the higher standard :banghead:
     
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