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police confiscate 'cop killer' gun in Far rockaway

Discussion in 'Legal' started by gunsmith, Jul 22, 2006.

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  1. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    http://www.timesledger.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16952861&BRD=2676&PAG=461&dept_id=573700&rfi=6

    police confiscate 'cop killer' gun in Far rockaway
    By:Stephen Stirling
    07/21/2006

    Police in Far Rockaway arrested and charged three youths with criminal possession of a weapon Wednesday after a search of their home yielded a powerful type of handgun that has been responsible for more than two-thirds of police officer deaths since 1994, according to the Queens district attorney.


    Police executed a court-authorized raid of the home of William Davis, 21, brother Clarence Davis, 18, and friend Gquan Lloyd, 18, Wednesday morning and found a notoriously powerful Fabrique Nationale 5.7 handgun along with another less-powerful handgun and a bag of cocaine, according to DA Richard Brown. The gun, called a "cop killer" by many for its ability to pierce 48 layers of bullet-proof Kevlar, is the first of its type to be recovered by authorities in New York City.
    "The FN 5.7 is a lethal handgun imported from Belgium and capable of easily penetrating most police vets and plates," Brown said. "While this is the first time that such a deadly weapon has been recovered in New York City, its presence is troubling and makes the job of street cops that much more dangerous."
    Since 1994, 425 of the 616 police officers killed in the line of duty have been killed with a FN 5.7, the DA said.
    The three Far Rockaway residents, all of the Hammel Houses on 81-10 Rockaway Beach Blvd., were arraigned Thursday on charges of criminal possession of a weapon and a controlled substance at Queens Criminal Court in Kew Gardens. If convicted, each could spend up to 15 years in prison.
    Reach reporter Stephen Stirling by email at news@timesledger.com or by phone at (718)229-0300 ext. 162.
     
  2. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    I call BS on this one. I doubt very much whether even a dozen cops have been killed by the FN 5.7mm - never mind the astronomical total the article cites. Someone's been at the hallucinogens again . . . :rolleyes:
     
  3. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    I know what you mean....

    my brother is a cop in NY
    and he asked me about the five seven...
    I assured him that the AK pistols and AR pistols
    will penetrate his vest too if they manage to outlaw
    the five seven:evil: ...thanks to THR , I know far more about
    guns then my cop brother....but he has a way cuter GF
    and a life....:p
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  4. PCGS65

    PCGS65 Member

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    Well just put the gun in jail..........problem solved................
     
  5. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    What year was the 5.7 introduced? 2003? This is the worst piece of junk article I've ever seen posted here!
     
  6. KD5NRH

    KD5NRH Member

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    Huh? Last I checked, weren't traffic accidents the leading cause of LEO LOD deaths?

    That only leaves 191 deaths by all other causes/weapons combined.

    It's irresponsible reporting to trust such a statistic based on a single source.
     
  7. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    i read a while back that MA wanted to ban 3 guns specificly.
    the S&W 500. wich, ironicly enough is made in springfield MA, is too unweildy and expensive to use in a crime
    the Barret 50 cals, same as above... X10
    and the F&N FiVe SeVeN or how ever its spelt. again FAR too expensive and rare for a common criminal to use

    it seems others are just as ignorant
     
  8. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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  9. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    Hah the logic makes my head explode.

    Are we really supposed to believe this article?

    If there were 425 deaths (more importantly, over 2/3 of all cop deaths) directly related to this pistol, there would be many, many more cop injuries, near misses, and incidents involving this particular firearm...all which are prime chances to recover weapons. The evidence lockers are probably stocked full of revolvers, pistols, shotguns, rifles, zip guns, machetes, chainsaws, bludgeoning and cutting objects, and all sorts of improvised weapons but they only found just one of these FN 5.7 pistols since 1994? They must have self-destruct systems or cloaking devices, and once dropped, they activate an internal time travel device to send them back to the 2003/4 n which they were manufactured so they couldn't recover any until recently.

    I'll tell you how that's possible

    The bloody pistol has only existed for several years, the high penetration ammunition is only available to military and law enforcement, and no one goes out and buys a $1000 firearm, waits several weeks, and picks it up to off someone. You could probably break into 10,000 homes with firearms and not even find one of these pistols because they simply aren't widespread.

    I would find it improbable, if not downright impossible to even claim that 5% of any police deaths can be atributed to any one particular make or model firearm. Somehow, in Bizzaro World, 5.7mm ammunition and the 5.7 are twice as popular than all other calibers and firearms combined (including .22LR and 38 special).

    I doubt any law enforcement agents have even been killed by the 5.7mm round, because if it was, the media would be ALL OVER it. I wrote the guy an email but somehow I think it'll fall on deaf ears. This is THE worst article I've seen to date. I've witnessed gross exaggerations but this is plain, unebelievable fabrication that you can't even expect an unknowledgable person (in terms of firearms) would swallow. That is like claiming 3/4 of all traffic-related cop fatalities were done by 2003 Ford Mustangs with the 4.6L V-8 engine, red paint, and the chrome package. It's simply unbelievable on any level.
     
  10. Norton

    Norton Member

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    It does appear that the gun wasn't even put into production until 2002-2003. That is one powerful firearm if it can send out pre-natal rays of death to kill police officer 8-9 years before it was even introduced. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Fosbery

    Fosbery Member

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    Why not complain? When ever I see a fautly article in the UK in relation to firearms, I write/email in and get the article changed, or an apology.
     
  12. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    My letter to the paper

    In the article "police confiscate 'cop killer' gun in Far Rockaway" you stated DA Richard Brown saying that a particular gun; the "notoriously powerful Fabrique Nationale 5.7 handgun" has been responsible for "425 of the 616 police officers killed in the line of duty".

    Was this fact checked by any other source? It seems hard to believe that one particular handgun could account for such a large percentage of deaths of Law Enforcement Officers.
    Especially since the handgun in question has only been out since 2004.

    source: http://www.bradycampaign.org/ler/fnh/faq.php

    Q: When did the Five-SeveN first become available to civilians in the US?

    A: FN Herstal debuted the gun and ammunition for sale to civilians in 2004.
     
  13. EasternShore

    EasternShore Member

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    NYPD line of duty deaths since 1994:

    Date of Death Rank Last Name First Name Middle Initial
    12/10/2005 Det. Enchautegui Daniel
    11/28/2005 Det. Stewart Dillon H.
    11/24/2004 P.O. Rivera William
    9/10/2004 Det. Parker Robert L
    9/10/2004 Det. Rafferty Patrick H.
    1/31/2004 Sgt. Ferguson Keith A
    3/10/2003 Det. Nemorin James Verneuil
    3/10/2003 Det. Andrews Rodney J
    8/28/2002 P.O. Enton Disdale O
    3/31/2002 Det. Betancourt Jaime
    9/11/2001 P.O. Danz Vincent G
    9/11/2001 P.O. Fazio Robert
    9/11/2001 P.O. Driscoll Stephen P
    9/11/2001 P.O. Pettit Glen K
    9/11/2001 P.O. Dominguez Jerome M
    9/11/2001 P.O. Smith Moira A
    9/11/2001 P.O. D'allara John
    9/11/2001 Det. Vigiano Joseph V
    9/11/2001 P.O. Kloepfer Ronald P
    9/11/2001 Sgt. Gillis Rodney C
    9/11/2001 P.O. Perry John W
    9/11/2001 P.O. Leahy James P
    9/11/2001 P.O. Talty Paul
    9/11/2001 P.O. Langone Thomas M
    9/11/2001 P.O. Valentin, Jr. Santos
    9/11/2001 P.O. Ellis Mark J
    9/11/2001 Sgt. Curtin Michael S
    9/11/2001 Sgt. Roy Timothy A
    9/11/2001 Sgt. Coughlin John G
    9/11/2001 P.O. Weaver Walter E
    9/11/2001 P.O. McDonnell Brian G
    9/11/2001 Det. Richards Claude D
    9/11/2001 P.O. Suarez Ramon
    7/17/2000 P.O. Kelly John Michael
    5/28/2000 P.O. Regan David A
    2/14/1999 P.O. Dziergowski Matthew A
    7/31/1998 P.O. Carter Gerald L
    5/26/1998 P.O. Mosomillo Anthony F
    1/19/1998 Det. Carrington Sean G
    12/11/1997 P.O. Forster Neil A.
    5/19/1997 P.O. Sanchez Anthony W
    12/22/1996 P.O. Davis Charles A
    10/18/1996 Lt. Narvaez Federico
    10/13/1996 P.O. Jones Brian R
    5/21/1996 P.O. Guidice Vincent
    3/14/1996 P.O. Gillespie Kevin
    2/17/1996 P.O. Oddo Charles
    9/25/1995 P.O. Willis David A
    1/21/1995 Det. Boesch Alfred
    12/2/1994 P.O. Cannon Jr. Raymond R
    4/27/1994 P.O. Perez Jose A
    3/15/1994 P.O. McDonald Sean A
    1/25/1994 P.O. DeMutiis Nicholas R


    Official link:

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/memorial.html

    That ain't 425 even. I'll post my message to the paper shortly.
     
  14. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    Maybe the terrorists secretly killed 23 police officers with a five seven , then drove a few planes into the twin towers to hide the evidence.
     
  15. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    As opposed to the kind that give you sweet little kisses? :rolleyes:

    I won't even address the 425 killed by the 5.7. We've seen some really ridiculous statistics from the other side, but this takes the cake.
     
  16. EasternShore

    EasternShore Member

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    Message sent:

    To Whom It May Concern:



    The Article entitled “Police Confiscate “Cop Killer” Gun in Far Rockaway” by Stephen Stirling needs either a retraction or serious corrections. It would appear that Mr. Stirling did no research for this article or to the facts regarding the firearm that was confiscated. A few minutes and the use of a search engine will yield startling facts that are very contradictory to Mr. Stirling’s writings. I will address them case by case.



    Since 1994 only 53 (+/- 1) New York Police officers have been killed in the line of duty. 23 of those officers died on September 11, 2001. On a national level, since 1996, 1,635 officers have died in the line of duty, 886 by various accidents, 740 by felonious acts, of the felonious deaths 589 were shot in the line of duty. Not one search of various media outlets of searching any internet site has yielded a news story or police report of an officer being wounded or killed by an FN Herstal 5.7 firearm of any type.



    Sources:



    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/memorial.html

    http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm

    http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/killedlod.htm





    The standard FN 5.7 ammunition available in the United States does not penetrate body armor as stated in the article. The ammunition addressed in the article is the FN Herstal SS190 - Armor piercing (AP) round and is only available to police and military. The standard round is the SS196 - Sporting round (Hornady 40 gr. V-max, hollow point lead), (not AP).



    Source:



    http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm

    http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/hg_fiveseven_usg.htm

    http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_57x28mm.htm





    The FN Five Seven Handgun addressed in the article has only been in production for a few years. Not since 1994 as asserted in the article. Specifically 2003/2004.



    Source:

    http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/hg_fiveseven_usg.htm





    Please take the appropriate actions to correct these matters. It is an embarrassment to the DA’s office and LEO’s that are working hard to get criminals off the street to see such inaccuracies in print.



    Thank You,
     
  17. KadicDeshi

    KadicDeshi Member

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    EasternShore,

    Very nicely put together. My hat's off to you, sir.

    Barrett
     
  18. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    Wow......just......wow. I literally laughed out loud when I read that article and saw 1994. Maybe FN has perfected a time machine and isn't letting anyone know yet but somehow the Five Seven managed to get a test ride. :scrutiny:
     
  19. mogunner

    mogunner Member

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    Police confiscate "cop killer" gun in far rockaway

    Agree with the majority. I call B>S on this. This story needs some serious rethinking /retraction :fire: :banghead:
     
  20. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    You must be independently wealthy and never sleep!:D

    Or is that only in the US that we get so many such articles?
     
  21. carterbeauford

    carterbeauford member

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    This pistol has killed 425 officers and it has taken them 12 years to finally recover one? Not only is it capable of time travel, it must have invisible capabilities as well. FNH is clearly well into the future of gun technology.

    I sent a similar email asking them to preserve what little journalistic integrity still exists in society. This is terrible, terrible reporting :uhoh:
     
  22. Fosbery

    Fosbery Member

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    No, there are just a lot fewer articles about firearms here. And the media here dosn't focus on any specific kinds of firearm or their operation (well, not since the pistol ban it hasn't) so there's much less for them to get wrong. I did have a good rant at some poor girl for writing in her article "this Glock-revolver-pistol" :D
     
  23. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    I knew the article was out in left field

    Because of the ammo issue, I hadn't realized how bad though.

    You know, they act like the Five Seven is the only firearm
    that can defeat a vest. every hunting rifle above .22
    probably could and I bet a few .22's can too
     
  24. ABTOMAT

    ABTOMAT Member

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    I'm honstly surprised that no one's tried going after 7.62x25 surplsu pistols, given the level of intelligence evident in articles like this. Although I guess the recent introduction of the 5.7 and the claims of armor penetration have something to do with it.

    I wonder if officials who spout information like this are aware that a cheap hunting rifle that's been cut down by a thug is infinitely more powerful than almost any pistol.

    Does anyone else get the feeling that the DA, if he did actually give these stats, should be reprimanded in some way?
     
  25. yhtomit

    yhtomit Member

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    My letter to the editor ...

    I wrote one, then waited a few minutes and edited it for clarity and to be less peevish; this is the version I finally hit "send" on:

    "Dear Sirs:

    Stephen Stirling's article about the police seizure of a Fabrique Nationale 5.7 pistol contained several far-fetched claims despite its brevity. Stirling calls the 5.7 a "type of handgun that has been responsible for more than two-thirds of police officer deaths since 1994." That claim is patently false, whether invented by Stirling or the district attorney to whom it's attributed. Not only has this pistol been available for sale to civilians only since 2004 (claims reaching a decade earlier are puzzling if not nonsensical), but absolutely no evidence shows that in the short time since its introduction the 5.7 has been used by criminals to shoot any substantial number of police, never mind "more than two-thirds" of fatal shootings. If 425 officers have been killed by criminals shooting 5.7s or other guns of the same caliber, I challenge Stirling (or anyone involved in fact-checking at the paper) to document (or even name) just 10 of them.

    Many gun owners are not only zealous in the defense of their Constitutional rights, but downright persnickety when they perceive such inaccuracies. Fabricated statistics may scare your readers, but certainly don't inform them.

    Cordially,

    [Signature + contact info]"
     
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