police confiscate 'cop killer' gun in Far rockaway

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Huh, I'm surprised you guys haven't figured it out. There is a big move to demonize the 5.7 and get it banned. The first step is to flood the opinions of people who don't know to link the gun to evil uses. In this case FN 5.7 = "Cop killer gun". It doesn't matter if the accusations are true or not, the focus is to get the public behind the ban. The majority of the folks who read the stories don't know and don't follow up on the truth to them.

I'll bet the press won't print a retraction. They did not make the claim. It was information from the DA. And I doubt they are not going to actively ask the DA about the facts. The best that they will do, which I doubt will happen, is print a reader's op ed calling out the DA on his facts.
 
hksw, we know nothing about the reporter. Even of he favors gun control, he might be more than a bit upset about being lied to. I emailed him; I invited him to THR, telling him to feel free to ask any questions he wishes, concerning gun issues...

Art
 
A completed research project showed that at the time of this writing no officer in the US has ever been shot or killed with the FN 5.7.
 
Politics is perception. We, the minority, know the truth, but the perception has been laid out by this article to millions of New Yorkers, that this handgun, this round, this idea of people carrying guns, killed all these police officers, and must be BANNED!! They will no more check the statistics before spouting it verbatim at the hair salons and sandwich shops, than I would if someone told me the score at the last Mets/Giants game - I simply don't care enough to look. I also don't tell other people bogus scores, don't care enough to tell anyone....
 
REMEMBER THIS: If the media can't get it right - Or even close to right - on issues about which you are personally well informed, why should you trust them to get it right on issues you have no personal knowledge of?

stolen from a THR members tag line.
 
Letter to Paper

Please correct the article entitled "Police confiscate 'cop killer' gun in Far Rockaway" as many of the facts are very inaccurate. The Fabrique Nationale 5.7 recovered by police could not have possibly been responsible for 2/3 of police officer deaths since 1994. First the gun has only been available for 2 years. In fact since 2004, 143 Officers have died as a result of gun-fire 12 of these were determined to be accidental. These included rifles, shotguns, and pistols and even the officer's handgun, but no mention of the FN 5.7 Surely if the FN5.7 was responsible for 2/3 of officer deaths I would have found a more significant representation. In fact even looking at the the officers who died as a result of guns in New York State in those two years there is no mention of the FN 5.7 only one instance of a handgun which was not identified and the likelihood that this was a FN 5.7 is extremely unlikely. As much as I tried to find data to corroborate this statistic I could not. If this is indeed accurate please provide your source of this information.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php
 
I called the Paper and spoke with the reporter. He was quite nice. He said his info Came from the DA's office and he is working on a follow up story with the right information.
 
Well thank you very much Azziza!

This kind of stuff reminds me of why I do not want to live anywhere near NYC or even NY State.

My brother is a cop there (Westchester County) and can not carry an AR15 on duty!
(dept policy no rifles, shotgun in trunk)


I as a civilian can carry more guns then he can!
 
please keep on topic

this is a thread about the confiscation of a five seven and about an innaccurate
article about the number of cops killed LOD by said weapon.

It isn't about use of force or swat teams or 18 year olds getting killed for smoking pot.

Those horses have been flogged, they are dead and buried.:barf:
 
Gunsmith: You're right, I apologize for letting my passion get the better of me.

Back to the topic.

Does anyone know for sure WHEN the first FNFive-Seven might possibly have been in this country? I looked on FN's website, but couldn't find any definitive answer.
 
got an email from paper! (ooh, back on topic again!)

Queens DA revises release about powerful handgun
By:Stephen Stirling
07/21/2006



The Queens district attorneys office said Monday
a miscommunication was
to blame for inaccurate information it released
in a press release last
Thursday that was quoted in a TimesLedger story
on the newspapers Web
site Friday.
(newspeak for "the gunnies are on to me")
The DAs office issued the press release about the
July 19 arrest of
three Far Rockaway youths, who were allegedly
found in possession of a
bag of cocaine and a powerful handgun, the
Belgian-made Fabrique
Nationale (FN) 5.7. In the release, the DA said
that 425 of the 616
officers killed in the line of duty between 1994
and 2003 had been
killed with the FN 5.7.There was a
miscommunication between the officer
and the prosecutor of the case, said DA spokesman
Kevin Ryan. The
statement should have read that 425 officers were
killed with a
handgun, not with this handgun. The TimesLedger
story elicited a number
of e-mails and phone calls from Web readers
around the country who
questioned the DA s claim that the officers had
been killed by the FN
5.7. The DA said Monday that both the press
release and the criminal
complaint filed in Queens Criminal Court last
Thursday have
subsequently been changed to reflect the proper
information, but the
discovery of the gun in Far Rockaway was still a
concern.The FN 5.7 is
a lethal handgun imported from Belgium and
capable of easily
penetrating most police vets and plates, DA Brown
said in last weeks
release. While this is the first time that such a
deadly weapon has
been recovered in New York City, its presence is
troubling and makes
the job of street cops that much more dangerous.
The revised press
release retained Browns statement about the FN
5.7, which has only been
available on the commercial market since 2004.
The DAs original release
also raised questions about how powerful the
rounds fired by the FN 5.7
can be. A deposition given by Detective Marques
Stewart of the 100th
Precinct last Thursday said the FN 5.7 is
referred to as acop-killer
because it can be fired from up to 100 yards with
a great degree of
accuracy and because the bullet it fires travels
at more than 2,000
feet per second, making it capable of penetrating
most police vests and
plates. According a report issued by the company
that sells and markets
the handgun in the United States, FNH USA, the
only type of ammunition
compatible with the FN 5.7 sold for commercial
use in the United States
is the SS196 bullet, which was found to be
non-armor piercing by the
FBIs Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
in 2005. The Alcohol,
Tobacco and Firearms report said the SS196 had
been classified asnot
armor piercing ammunition under federal firearms
statutes. The FBI unit
report said the SS192 bullet, which also can be
fired by the FN 5.7,
did pierce level IIA kevlar vests, which are
widely used by police
officers in the United States. While FNH USA has
said that the SS192 is
no longer imported for commercial sale in the
United States, the Queens
DA was recently informed by FBI officials that
successful commercial
purchases of SS192 munitions were made by the
agency at a munitions
outlet in Virginia, Ryan said. FNH USA did not
immediately return calls
for comment. The controversy stems from a
court-authorized police raid
of the Far Rockaway home of William Davis, 21,
brother Clarence Davis,
18, and friend Gquan Lloyd, 18, on the morning of
July 19, Browns
office said. Police said they found a FN 5.7
handgun along with another
less-powerful handgun and a bag of cocaine. The
three Far Rockaway
residents, all of the Hammel Houses on 81-10
Rockaway Beach Blvd., were
arraigned last Thursday on charges of criminal
possession of a weapon
and a controlled substance at Queens Criminal
Court in Kew Gardens, the
DA said. If convicted, each could spend up to 15
years in prison.
 
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I called the Paper and spoke with the reporter. He was quite nice. He said his info Came from the DA's office and he is working on a follow up story with the right information.

Good on you Azizza. Hopefully, he is the 'get the facts straight'-type of guy and follows up. I won't hold my breath but I do hope he (and the newspaper) follows through. As noted, it isn't entirely the newspaper or the reporter at issue (though they do play a part in getting the facts straight bfore printing), it is mostly on the DA. It is understandable not to look up the facts when the source is supposedly reliable. Unfortunately in this case, the DA has an agenda.
 
I got the same canned response from the DA's office, they got back:
Mr. Ryan I appreciate the response and the effort to set the record
straight but I would like to point out that the FN 5.7 is still no greater
danger to law enforcement officers than any other handgun. While the
Brady Campaign has claimed that the now discontinued SS192 ammunition was
able to penetrate level 2A body armor, it has yet to be duplicated by an
independent group. Proper backing is vital to body armor testing, poor
methodology can give invalid results.

Further level 2A body armor is a weak armor. It isn't even rated to
defend against full metal jacket 9mm rounds traveling faster than 1100
fps. The most common body armor worn by LEO's in the US is level 3A.
Testing by FN has shown that SS192 will not penetrate level 3A armor, and
the ATF has agreed with those results and does not list the round as an
armor piercing round. If the ATF agreed it was armor piercing or I saw
some independent testing confirming the Brady group's results I could
certainly be more receptive to calling it a danger to police officers.

Until then we have uncorroborated reports of ammunition that is stated to
be non-armor piercing by the BATF (and is no longer sold) piercing a level
of body armor that most police already find too insubstantial to wear.
And to top it off, in the 10 year period of the FBI's most recent Uniform
Crime Report not a single police officer has died as a result of any
handgun round penetrating his body armor. To call this handgun a danger
to police officers is misleading at best.
 
One small victory!!!!

Considering that most of the correction is still incorrect BS, it's not much of a victory.

It's the best that can be expected, I suppose.
 
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