Police Rethink 'Always Armed' Policy

[twency]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1349814

Police Rethink 'Always Armed' Policy
Police Departments Rethink 'Always Armed, Always on Duty' Policies in Wake of Officer Deaths

PROVIDENCE, R.I. Nov 27, 2005 — An old police tradition of requiring off-duty officers to carry their weapons "always armed, always on duty" is being scaled back in police departments nationwide, increasingly being blamed for the deaths of officers shot by colleagues who thought they were criminals.

The policy requires officers to respond to crimes even when they're not on duty. Supporters also say that letting officers carry their guns off-duty protects them from crooks bent on revenge.

But critics point to the shooting of officers in Providence, R.I., Orlando, Fla., Oakland, Calif. and elsewhere.

"Our situation is the extreme example of what can go wrong," said Sgt. Robert Paniccia, president of the Providence police union.

Young's mother, Leisa Young, says the rookie officer who shot him was not adequately trained to recognize off-duty or plainclothes officers.

The International Association of Chiefs of Police has called "always on duty" policies a costly tradition. The group, which has more than 20,000 members, recommends that off-duty officers who witness a crime call for assistance rather than pulling a weapon.

According to the FBI, 43 police officers have been killed since 1987 by friendly fire. Some were caught in crossfire, or killed by firearms mishaps. A handful, like Young, were mistaken for criminals and shot by fellow officers.

This year, an Orlando, Fla., police officer killed a man who had fired a gun outside the Citrus Bowl. The victim was a plainclothes officer working for the University of Central Florida. In 2001, two uniformed officers shot and killed an undercover detective when he trained his gun on a suspected car thief in Oakland, Calif.

In 1994, an off-duty police officer in New York City shot an undercover transit officer eight times in the chest. The transit officer survived.

Let's all be careful out there.
____________________
-twency

 

[loose cannon]

i always wondered how the antis were going to disarm the police after reading of their agenda in a memo that was revealed a few years back.

could this be the 1st step?,,,,,,,,

 

[TexasRifleman]

And, for every one of these tragedies, how many lives were saved because of an armed off-duty officer?

You can find the corner cases in anything if you look hard enough.

One or 2 incidents on the bad side can't outweigh the hundreds on the good side, but of course the reporter here doesn't point any of that out, of course.

We as non-LEOs face the same danger when we carry concealed. And, with the same tragic results now and then. And again, how many of these turn out for the GOOD vs for the BAD. That's the important question, not whether or not it ever happens at all.

 

[pcf]

From www.odmp.org 3207 Officers have died in the line of duty between today and 1987.

While unfortunate 43 accidental shootings make up 1.3% of deaths, of that 43 the number that were accidentally shot due to mistaken identity is not provided.

While criminals with guns account for the vast majority of officer deaths, we should take guns away from the police for their safety.

 

[orangeninja]

Perhaps they should better train officers for off duty carry and reaction. My department's policy is simple....don't get involved unless it's life threatening.....possibly they could use these too, I don't, but it may save a life....what do you guys think?

http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=LP263&cat=2646

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The number of LEOs killed with their own weapon since 1987 is far greater than 43. Look at the lives that could be saved by simply disarming all LEOs.

 

[M-Rex]

According to the DOJ/FBI there were 675,734 law enforcement officer (sworn) working for 14,254 different agencies across the U.S.

Between 1987 and now, 43 have been killed by 'friendly fire'. If they were all killed in one year, that would equal out to about 0.006% of all LEO's.

It is an average of 2.38 officers per year killed by 'friendly fire'...out of 675,734. That equals out to 0.0003522%.

Two words:

Statistically insignificant.

Cite:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/law_enforcement_personnel/

This is simply another smokescreen for disarmament.

 

[AF_INT1N0]

M-rex beat me to it....

Curse you M-rex!!!! for stealing my thunder!!!!!

j/k

but he's right 43 since 87 is so insignifigant as to ask why bother even tracking it..

More police are killed by asteroids....

 

[geekWithA.45]

As others point out, LEO's getting killed by good OR bad buys with guns is statistically a NON PROBLEM. (60-70 a year...a mere blip)

Of course, those who benefit from the widespread belief that John and Jane Law are being slaughtered by the thousands don't want you to know that.

The other point I would bring up, that would make a _fascinating_ study is

"How frequently are off duty officers shot for being armed in states that accept and support an armed citizenry, vs those in states that presume an armed person in street clothes is a criminal?"

 

[AF_INT1N0]

geek.... That is a Damn good question...... Probably more than in free states...

By alot

 

[RealGun]

Police pull and aim, sometimes shoot their weapons in situations that a civilian could not justify.

 

[Onmilo]

This is the old liberal argument that neither cops nor law abiding citizens need to carry guns as they go about their day to day lives because guns are dangerous and will just get you killed.

Since citizens cannot legally carry in the State of Illinois, I hope and pray that every off duty police officer is, because they can,,,,,

 

[bogie]

True... A few years back I knew a fellow who got literally pistol whipped by an off duty cop who didn't like the way the fellow was looking at his girlfriend. Knowing the fellow, I sorta side with the cop, but only up to the point of maybe suggesting that he shoulda gotten his girlfriend outta the bar...

 

[roo_ster]

Asteroids/Steroids

More police are killed by asteroids....

I first read this as "More police are killed by steroids...."

AF_INT1N0's statement is a bit fanciful, but I think what I thought he wrote may very well be true.

 

[Teufelhunden]

Considering the possibility of having to act as a peace officer without being clearly identified as one and in discussion with deputies in my department, it has become clear that SOME form of immediately apparent identification is necessary before you act.

Acting as your duties require is all well and good, but if you don't take care of #1 (yourself), no one else might either. Bottom line: Go home alive.

-Teuf

 

[boofus]

The antis have NEVER been the friend of the beat cop or law abiding citizens in general.

Law enforcement is simply a convenient excuse to push the gun ban agenda.

The leftwing fruitloops pushing for gun control are the SAME ones that want clemency and pardons for copkilling scumbags like Mumia Abu Jamal and quadruple murderer Tookie Williams.

 

[El Tejon]

Exactly right, boofus. They care no more about the police than they do about me and you. And you know how much they hate me and you!

The antis have agitated for disarming off-duty cops for a while now. It is merely a tactic against CCW.

If police departments prohibit off duty carry, antis can point to this policy as evidence of how "dangerous" carrying a gun is to the few legislatures where the antis can make a stand.

Of course, this represents a wonderful opportunity for the NRA to come to the defense of the police. We'll wait and see if anyone down there is paying attention (yes, I send them letters but do they ever write back--nooooo).

 

[svtruth]

Race?

It is my impression (and I'm happy to listen to facts) that usually, the shooter LEO is white and the shootee, black.
This was the case in RI and, IIRC, the 1994 NYC episode.

 

[jsalcedo]

If there is such a huge problem with LEO's shooting other LEO's I guess CCW holders will me massacred by the police.

 

[Jeff White]

The IACP has never endorsed off duty carry and they lobbied against HR218. I'm sure the passage of HR 218 has had a lot to do with this new push. A lot of administrators who are perfectly comfortable with their off duty officers carrying weapons where they work, don't want them carrying out of their jurisdiction.

Jeff

 

[c_yeager]

According to the DOJ/FBI there were 675,734 law enforcement officer (sworn) working for 14,254 different agencies across the U.S.

Between 1987 and now, 43 have been killed by 'friendly fire'. If they were all killed in one year, that would equal out to about 0.006% of all LEO's.

It is an average of 2.38 officers per year killed by 'friendly fire'...out of 675,734. That equals out to 0.0003522%.

Two words:

Statistically insignificant.

Cite:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/law_enforcement_personnel/

This is simply another smokescreen for disarmament.

The amount of officers killed by criminals is also statistically insignificant. Perhaps they dont need to be armed at all.

 

[M-Rex]

The amount of officers killed by criminals is also statistically insignificant. Perhaps they dont need to be armed at all.

Please tell my you are demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

 

[Mannlicher]

"This year, an Orlando, Fla., police officer killed a man who had fired a gun outside the Citrus Bowl. The victim was a plainclothes officer working for the University of Central Florida"

From the article posted. If you will remember, the 'off duty' cop was not a cop, but a security guard, who was engaged in some pretty odd behavior at the time. The Keystone, er, Kampus Kop that killed him was not held responsible at all. Funny how the cops will turn even something like this to their political advantage.

 

[Jim K]

LEOs might want to recall that one of the goals of the Brady campaign and other anti-gun groups is the DISARMAMENT OF THE POLICE. In his famous book "The Saturday Night Special", Robert Sherrill made it clear that the FIRST priority of gun control was disarming the police, who, he claimed, were incompetent, stupid, corrupt, and dangerous. The Brady campaign has called the book "the bible" of gun control.

Jim

 

[JMusic]

A few comments. Those who have taken the oath know that it did not stipulate up to 8 hours a day! What is the difference between plainclothes officers (look wise) and off duty? Those who wish to disarm the police should go some where that is ruled by a Queen. Not even the French are that stupid!!!
Jim