Discussion in 'Legal' started by [email protected], Apr 8, 2008.
Amen to that, brother.
It's Joisey. The gun's probably already been destroyed.
Unfortunately, because you "say" something is stolen doesn't make it so. And they very well may have a legitimate reason for keeping the gun - if their investigation isn't complete, they can't return the gun. That's not saying that I don't agree that they should be finished with the investigation by now - but the fact is, we don't have all the facts. There may be something they need to look at, or information that the OP doesn't know about that is keeping the cops from releasing his buddy's piece. Fact is, however much I may or may not agree with you, doing this would likely not do any good, and would be extremely likely to result in Fed authorities as well as local authorities being very upset with the OP.
Why? Because they are anti-gun-right butthole you-know-whats, abusing their power and abusing his rights.
More to the point, what to do about it. Get a lawyer and sue their butts! Have to go to court to protect your rights sometimes, unfortunately - that is how our system is set up - in an adversarial manner.
This is a story of events that occurred to me about 5 years ago, events which resulted in my CWP being revoked. It took me six months, multiple hearings, an administrative appeal, and several thousand dollars in attorney fees to finally clear my name. I have posted this on a few other sites in the past, but it has been some time since I last mentioned it. Let this serve as a warning to others that this can happen to you. Sorry if this is a long story.
It began when my live in girlfriend announced that she wanted to see other people, and moved out. While we were living together, her car had broken down, and I had been letting her drive my second car while she was awaiting repairs. She had also been using a second cell phone on my Nextel account. (Trust me, I am not rambling- this is all important later)
When she moved out, I turned off the cell phone and I asked for my car back. She refused. I called the cops, they told me that since I had given her the keys, it was a civil matter. I didn't know where she moved to, so my car was gone. A month later, I saw the car parked at the mall, but there was a "club" on the steering wheel. I had it towed to my house.
The next day, there was a sheriff's deputy at my door with a domestic violence injunction, ordering me to appear at a hearing a week later. At the hearing, she produced a statement that I had been beating her while we were together. No proof, no witnesses, no police reports, no medical records, no marks on her, no corroborating evidence of any kind, just her say-so. It turns out that there is a "domestic violence victims advocates office" at the court house that coaches these women in what to say, and makes sure they get sympathetic judges.
While in court, she began crying, and told the judge that I had taken away her phone, and that I had taken back my car, and left her with no way to get to work. She also told the judge that she was afraid of me because I owned a lot of guns. This infuriated the judge, and he ordered me to turn my guns in to the police, revoked my CCW, and ordered me to provide her with a car and a phone.
He also said that since my 2 jobs as a paramedic could potentially bring me near her, that I was prohibited from going to work. One job was willing to work with me, the other one fired me the next day.
My attorney pointed out that we were never married, and the car was mine. The judge told him to sit down. Luckily, the attorney had prewarned me about the anti-gun attitude of the judge, and I had sold all of my guns to my brother in law two days earlier. Since this was not a final judgment, we could not appeal. The judge also said that my taking away "her" car and phone was a kind of violence, in that I was using my financial influence and the threat of firearms to control her.
For the next five months, we had numerous hearings, and I got one of my jobs back. I had to endure her showing up everywhere I went and she would use the restraining order to force me to leave, sometimes while I was in the middle of dining in a restaurant. I started making sure I had witnesses wherever I was, so that she couldn't accuse me of anything. I hung out with friends and family, so that way it wouldn't be my word against hers.
It would go like this: I would be at a sports bar owned by my partner, and she would show up, and call the police. Since I was there first, they couldn't arrest me, but they would make me leave. She would go grocery shopping at the store across the street from my house, and tell the cops I was watching her from my window, and they would come over and hassle me. She called the cops and told them her doctor's office was in my mom's neighborhood, and they would even throw me out of my mom's house, and make me leave until she was finished at the doctor.
One night, she called me and told me that the whole thing would go away if I paid her $10,000 in cash, and let her keep the car. I refused. My attorney was finally able to trip the judge on a legal technicality, and got him recused from the case. With a new judge, we got the whole thing thrown out, and I got my car back. By the time I got it, it had been damaged by some sort of tool.
Another month, and some administrative appeals later, I managed to get my CWP back. I bought the guns from my brother in law, and my life returned to normal.
All of this was done on a statement filled out by her, with no witnesses, and no proof whatsoever. I discovered that when you get in front of these judges, you are at their mercy. They can ruin your life. One of the deputies told me that most of the domestic violence injunctions he serves are not really violence, but women trying to gain the upper hand in divorce proceedings, or out to get revenge.
My guess is that he is correct. I suspect the vast majority of DV ROs are not really about any actual violence but a negotiating and revenge tool. If there was a requirement that some actual evidence be produced to support a RO, most would never come about.
Divemedic, I'm very sorry for your shaft ordeal. And I hate to say this obvious truth, but the fact of the matter is, given the raw deal the system gives you, about the ONLY ways to ensure that your RKBA won't be taken away on a whim based on lies, is to (a) don't enter into any serious relationships with the fairer (and more vindictive) sex, or (b) have $20,000 stashed away to hire the best lawyer known to man in your state, when the crazy you know what makes allegations after you break up. I don't have (b), so I must choose (a), or at the very least, date only those women who are extremely sweet, meek and mild, without an evil or vindictive bone in their body - they are 1 in 100,000 though, if that common.
They probably weren't done shooting it yet!
That's certainly been true in my three decades of law practice.
A lesser, but equally real problem, is judges (female and male) who are predisposed against the man in these cases. This is especially true of family court "referees" who spend 100% of their time sorting out domestic squabbles.
#1 If you are in NJ, it is NOT the Police Department that isnt giving him the gun back, it is the County Prosecutor's Office. The County Prosecutor is the ONLY person that can release a firearm to be returned after a Restraining order is dropped. Most County Prosecutors in NJ are anti-gun (and not just for the Non-LEO's, there's one Prosecutor who has openly stated he'll suspend anyone who works for him if they carry under LEOSA..but that's a different thread). I have a Lt on my Dept who's Ex-Wife has done this to him 3 times, all Three times he has had to go to a Judge to FOrce the Prosecutor's Office to return his guns, and Allow him to go back to Armed Duty. the last time the Judge finally told the Assistant Prosecutor who was holding things up he would Jail HER if he didnt have this cleared up in 48 Hours.
as for the "Everything takes six months" Stuff and Nonsense In some places yes, there are CLEO's who use the fact that they have to sign off on FID cards and Handgun purchase permits as their own little way of Gun Control..However they ARE requored to respond in a certain amount of time, most people dont know enoguh to insist on it, or they can go to the nearest NJSP barracks, who CAN issue the appropriate documents (and generally break that CLEO's balls over it) This is by far NOT the majority of departments. My Department's turnaround time is about 8 weeks, and THAT is only because everything now has to go to the NJSP (with the appropriate $18.00 money order of course) for a Mental Health background check and DV check, they just can't issue permits anymore like they used to be able to. Before the new rules went into effect it was about 2-3 weeks as my chief waited until there were a few permits to do at once rather than sign them individually. NJ's laws are a PITA, but they're a Hell of a lot better than other places, like Ma, or NYC
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