Police Tazer - Judge for yourself

[TechBrute]

I dont know what you do for a living, but how would you like your performance critiqued by someone who has never done the job, received any of the training, or aquired any of your specialized knowledge?

I wouldn't, for the same reason you guys whine about it, but what's the alternative? No accountablility? In my job, I'm hired by a client who doesn't know how to do my job functions. And yet, I'm accountable to them, regardless of how well they know (or don't know) my job. Sounds like what you are talking about.

Being a cop requires skills and knowledge that non-cops by definition do not have or know. So how could a non-cop possibly form an objective, qualified evaluation about what cops do? Y'all simply dont have the tools. It is literally Monday morning quarterbacking, cause you were'nt on the field and didnt attend any practices. It is unfair to the profession, and no different than a non-doctor attempting to evaluate what a doctor has done. You can form an opinion, but of what quality can that opinion be, being based on what you dont know and have no experiences in? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but how much weight should be placed on it?

All this smells of the arguement that citizens should have no say in public servant's jobs. Maybe I'm reading something into it.

I don't need to know everything about you or your job to be able to see the outcome. It also doesn't take any special ninja training to see when a cop has lost perspective on who he is and what his job is.

Personally, I think it may be perfectly valid to have someone who knows nothing of you and your job to judge you. It happens all the time. It's called the legal system. The judge and jury knows nothing, and both sides try to educate and persuade them, "from scratch." So what's good for the entire country isn't good for cops?

 

[centac]

Not exactly - the legal systems evaluates evidence and witnesses in light of a specific incident, and involves much education of jurors and judges.

There is already civilian oversight of law enforcement. Sheriffs are elected. Chiefs of police answer to a civilian mayor, county executive, council or commissioner. I cannot speak for all LEOs, but my main issue is with non-qualified micro-management. What qualifies anyone on this board to critique this particular use of force. Once again, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to automatic credibility. That comes with knowledge and experience.

 

[scottgun]

This woman is proof that stupidity can be painful.

She's not crying because of the pain from the taser, but because she is being forced to do something that she doesn't want to, like a small child having a temper tantrum.

I'm not a big fan of the police, but it's laughable that everyone has an idea of how the police can do their jobs better or "the right way". The funiest remark I saw related to this video was on another board where someone said they should just use a wheel lock on the vehicle. :banghead:

 

[thorn726]

There is already civilian oversight of law enforcement. Sheriffs are elected. Chiefs of police answer to a civilian mayor, county executive, council or commissioner.

barely. it works better in some places than others, often the police really dont answer to anyone.
our lovely loophole- UC police. UC Berkeley campus police are exactly as powerful as regular police here (witihin certain distance from campus, which is spread out all over the city, mainly in the middle of business area)

they have an internal review board. that's all.

anyway, more relevant is police here do not answer to taser use the same as they would gun use. which sounds logical- until someone gets hit 3 or 4 times while in cuffs.

there should be some tighter oversight i think, at least here, i dont know how well regulated their use is elsewhere. but at the very least, once in cuffs, what the heck are cops still shocking someone for?

it's a tough one. i like the idea of a taser, seems very humane and effective as long as it is used properly. better than a club or a gun for the person that is just an out of control idiot- most people deserve the chance to go to jail, think about whether it is worth stirring up trouble again.

 

[thorn726]

now of course i am hlafway thru the video- this is exactly the kind of person tasers are good for.

right off the bat, keeping her door open i would see a potential threat.

also got to love trying to argue justice with the enforcement.
"you cant radar while driving" she says.

might as well bame the cop for the speed law's existence too

but this also shows how poorly the LE is trained. the woman is on the ground, stunned, and he is yelling over and over put your hands behind yer back.

moron. the person is stunned, cuff em and be done with it.
did they not realize they had TASED the woman?

really makes me laugh. ok i am going to stun you so i can get ahold of you.

then i will demand you move around!

errrrrrr.

i bet this is the problem all over. dumb cops that cant figure out the nature of their weapon..


after a shootout do these guys go up to dead BG and say
"GET up! GET UP!!! "

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

Another Taser Death (Waco, TX)

In today's news:

http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/gen/ap/TX_Taser_Death.html


Waco man dies after confrontation with police

WACO, Texas — A Waco man has died after being shot several times with a Taser by police during a domestic disturbance call.

Robert Earl Williams, 62, was shot about four times with a Taser on Tuesday, and five officers were needed to handcuff him after a confrontation at his sister's home, police said. Williams was later pronounced dead at a Waco hospital.

According to Waco police spokesman Steve Anderson, two police officers were called to the home of Williams' sister after receiving a report of a domestic disturbance between Williams and his sister.

After officers arrived, a records check showed Williams was wanted because his bond on a previous resisting arrest charge had been revoked. As officers went to arrest Williams, he picked up a piece of ribbed steel bar, police said.

Anderson said officers then shot him once with a Taser, a pistol-shaped device that shoots two electrified barbs and usually renders targets powerless.

The officers called for backup, and three other officers arrived and struggled with Williams.

He was shot with Tasers about four times, none of which had any effect, according to Waco police spokesman Ryan Holt.

"There was no sign that he was slowing down," he said. "He just kept fighting officers and kept fighting officers."

The five officers managed to handcuff Williams and subdue him, Holt said. Eventually, there were 17 officers on the scene.

Williams' size — about 6-foot and 350 pounds — may have played a role in the struggle because Tasers often are ineffective on large people, Anderson said. Officers used two sets of handcuffs linked together on Williams because of his size, Anderson said.

Holt said Williams complained he was having trouble breathing after sitting down. Officers immediately called for an ambulance. By the time the ambulance arrived, Williams was not breathing, and officers were performing CPR on him, Holt said.

Anderson said the five officers who arrested Williams have been placed on paid administrative leave pending an internal investigation.

Williams' cause of death was unknown, and his body has been sent to Dallas for an autopsy.

 

[pezo]

That ladies got chills, their multiplying and she's losing control ,cause the power their supplying its ELECTIFYING.

 

[71Commander]

I'm a terrible human being. I'm ashamed of myself. I laughed at her misfortune of getting zapped and thought, "What an idiot".

 

[Matt G]

thorn726 said:

also got to love trying to argue justice with the enforcement.
"you cant radar while driving" she says.

I've always thought that one was odd. Moving radar was recognized by the courts as valid in the early '70's. Not exactly new technology. I think what has people confused is that LIDAR (laser) doesn't work while moving. They've heard one, and assume the other. 95% of all your speed stops are going to be radar rather than LIDAR.

but this also shows how poorly the LE is trained. the woman is on the ground, stunned, and he is yelling over and over put your hands behind yer back.

moron. the person is stunned, cuff em and be done with it.
did they not realize they had TASED the woman?

Most folks curl up with their hands underneath them when tased. This is an opportunity to grab a weapon at the waistband. After the the tasing is stopped, she can certainly put her hands behind her back. As that's the safest way to do it, that's what she'll be told to do. What, you want them to wrestle her hands around behind her back now, after having deployed the taser to avoid having to do that?!? Better just to use the immediate pain compliance technique of the taser.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

Williams' cause of death was unknown, and his body has been sent to Dallas for an autopsy.

How is this a "taser death"???

A Waco man has died after being shot several times with a Taser by police during a domestic disturbance call.

The press is doing the same thing here that they do with thier anti-gun spin. They state one truth (guy was tasered), then another (guy died later), leading simple minds to believe that the second true statement caused the first. In fact, that is not what they are saying, but that is how people are made to believe lies without the messenger actually telling a lie.
I bet that man took a shower sometime before he died to. "Waco man has died after taking a shower". Uh-uh, better not bathe yourself, could be deadly...

Let's wait for the medical report, shall we?

 

[Teufelhunden]

After officers arrived, a records check showed Williams was wanted because his bond on a previous resisting arrest charge had been revoked. As officers went to arrest Williams, he picked up a piece of ribbed steel bar, police said.

The article doesn't mention dimentions on the steel bar, or how he acted with it after he picked it up. If it were a bar of any substantial length and he acted aggressively with it, this could have been a lethal force encounter.

As I've said before, if you come at me with a weapon and I deploy the TASER, I'm attempting to SAVE your life.Though the TASER might contribute in some roundabout way to your demise, I can virtually guarantee that two controlled pairs of JHP .45's center mass WILL kill you.

I'm not saying that the TASER isn't abused; ANY tool can be abused. As we are so fond of pointing out on this forum, it is the man who is evil, not the tool.

-Teuf

 

[thorn726]

Most folks curl up with their hands underneath them when tased. This is an opportunity to grab a weapon at the waistband

good point. ok so how about once on the ground, tase them again, and use that stun time to grab her arms.....

at least if person is screaming "i can't move"

at that point, the should be given a moment to try and move, recover, whatever.

bottom line, i laugh my head off at this particualr lady

 

[aaronrobertseash]

Been there, done that...it's not that bad

First off, I work as a road deputy up in Michigan. I carry a tazer and had to get zapped myself to carry it. This is required of any officer who carries, at least anywhere I know of. It's 5 seconds that feels like 50 seconds. It sucks really bad and basically feels like a bad charlie horse pulsing through your entire body really fast. You have very little movement and really can't fight. However, you can still breath and involentary muscles still work fine. Tazer International has done extensive testing on these and has documentation from this to show the safety of the device including tazing volenteers for several minutes at a time (sounds like college kids who need beer money really bad). When I got tazed, it sucked and I dropped a really loud "F Bomb" at the end. But, when it was over, it was over. I could move fine and was able to function fine. I was a bit tingly but was up and great right after. The actual voltage is very low, it's just the type of voltage waved that interrupt the nerve transmission to the muscles that does it. It doesn't even come close to the amount that pacemakers are required to be able to withstand. I have also been sprayed with different chemicals and I'd MUCH rather be tazed. It's safer to start with and when it's over, it's over.

So, with that being said, I think I can make the educated opinion that those officers were justified in doing what they did. Basically, she was stopped and could be arrested for driving while suspended. It was obvious she had no intention of cooperating. I don't quite get people like this because officers can't just say "oh well...guess she's arguing so we'll just back off and leave her alone." I fully agree with what was posted earlier about not wanting to reach into a vehicle that is on. I'll do it if the person is not being assaultive but as soon as they do anything to make me think they may be driving away with me hanging on the side, I'm gonna go to some other options if I have them. If she even so much as tried to push the officer away, that would give the officers the right under most policies to use the tazer. Swatting at on of them would definitely. Besides that, she had many warnings and did not comply. I don't know about any of you, but if I'm told by an officer that I'll be tazed if I don't do something, I'm gonna do what I'm told...especially when I'm doing something illegal (driving suspended). By them tazing her, they probably saved not only injury to themselved but to her also. Yanking someone out of a car, especially if it's moving, is not so safe.

She started by arguing to try any way to get out of what she was doing and ended up using every card she could think of before finally physically resisting an arrest. The reason why officers don't want her getting on her cell phone when they are about to arrest her is they don't need a huge group of friends coming and starting stuff to keep her from going to jail. It happens...suspects call backup too. Heck, he told her several times and gave her opportunity to comply. He told her exactly what he was going to do. She was stupid and didn't believe him. Ya, she screemed and whined a lot when and after being tazed. It hurts. He told her what to do and told her what would happen if she didn't put her hands behind her back. She said she can't. However, I could respond just fine and so could all the other suckers who got tazed when I did. She just didn't want to and probably figured saying she can't would get her sympathy. These cops have all been tazed. They know and don't fall for that crap. Some people are also just freaked out by being tazed and don't "get it" until it keeps coming. So...she goes on to scream and cry like she's been shot with a gun. I've felt it, lots of other cops have felt it. When it's over, it's over...no pain anymore. She was freaked because they did what they warned her they were going to do and she was now going to jail. These guys are not insensive terrible cops, they just know she's full of crap and deal with that same crap all the time.

Interestingly enough, once someone is tazed, they usually comply the next time it's taken out. My guess is she will take the "I'm a victim" attitude instead of taking the time for the crime.

[email protected]

 

[Justin]

Ancient history.