Poor Guy...

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oh my.... thats truly awful. Glad he's ok, not glad the rifles hurt. For his sake, its a good thing the FIL didn't take the first shot! I'm going to second the suing of the reload company. On a side note, when younger, I definitely shot some gunshow reloads out of my Garand and 03A3. Concerning....
 
It boggles my mind that anyone would spend good money on a rifle and then shoot someone elses reloads.

Unfortunately the guy didn't know any better. Most people don't realize how much attention to detail is required when reloading, and the gun shop owner sold him the ammunition.
 
The gunshop owner and cartridge company would be fools not to buy the guy a new rifle and throw in a LOT of factory ammo in exchange for a release of liability. It will save them a ton of money in the long run.
 
That round would have done much worse damage in a weaker gun. I have never seen a manufacturer that was ok with using reloads in their guns. The store owner and manufacturer of the ammo does have liability here, a commercial transaction ending in a destroyed rifle. Damn lucky he was not hurt badly.
 
Okay, the rifle was used, so the warranty was void anyway.
Secondly, the shop sold the guy a rifle in .30/06 and .30/06 ammo. Neither a rifle in good condition nor ammo properly loaded would cause the damage done to this rifle.

I've owned and shot M1's and I cannot imagine of any single or multiple mechanical failure that could have caused this KB. Even the "Light Magnum" and the stuff loaded with heavy bullets and slow powders wouldn't do this. A bent op rod after a couple hundred rounds, but not a catastrophic disassembly.

Third: If this is a reputable shop, they should stand behind the products they sell, used included. Used or not, rifles and ammo should not explode on the first shot. Besides, most states have basic consumer protection laws that should cover this.
 
I saw one episode where they loaded a .300 Win Mag case with 70 grains of Bullseye and upon firing in the test rifle, the whole receiver flew apart but nothing came back at the cardboard cutout sitting behind the rifle.

I am glad to hear that this is true. I have heard however of it happening to people that pull the trigger and nothing happens so they automatically think the round was a dud so they unlock the bolt to strip it and the round goes off. I almost did it once with an old 1903 springfield. I had my hand on the bolt ready to pull upward when it went off and the stock smacked me in the face. Needless to say when I have a dud I always set the rifle down for a while before I strip it now.
 
longdayjake, I think that was my point ... in order for the bolt to come back at you, the bolt lugs would need to be disengaged. This is one of the potential concerns with slamfires in bolt action rifles. I read an article a few years ago describing how a bolt from a .50 cal went through a shooter's right hip and buried itself in a pickup truck behind the firing line. The shooter was shooting the rifle off the bench and as he was stripping a round off the magazine, he had a slamfire due to an incorrectly (proud) seated primer. He was standing at the bench (behind the rifle) as he was closing the bolt which probably saved his life.

:)
 
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I didn't read the whole thread at surplusrifle, but did he ever mention if he was using FACTORY reloads or home hand loads?

I have no problem shooting factory reloads such as HSM reloads since they are held to the same type of quality control as factory new loads.
 
30-06 reloads

well the OP said he bought 165Gr reloads. Bet they were loaded for a bolt action(there is a difference:what:most load manuals have a section for M-1's)
Then the question were the cases full length sized?(to the absolute bottom)
And I agree with the poster who thinks it was a1/8 th out of battery firing, because the round looked as if it was unsupported. and finnaly we don't know the quanity or the I.D. of the powder. so the OP does indeed bear some resonsibility in this.
 
well the OP said he bought 165Gr reloads. Bet they were loaded for a bolt action(there is a differencemost load manuals have a section for M-1's)
Then the question were the cases full length sized?(to the absolute bottom)
And I agree with the poster who thinks it was a1/8 th out of battery firing, because the round looked as if it was unsupported. and finnaly we don't know the quanity or the I.D. of the powder. so the OP does indeed bear some resonsibility in this.

No, to me this doesn't look a case of IMR4831 instead of IMR4895

this is clearly a case of Unique or other fast handgun powder instead of a suitable rifle powder. A slightly incorrect burn rate will bend and break some parts. But violent self disassembles such as this you only get from accidently using pistol powders in quantity in a rifle case
 
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As one seemingly knowledgeable poster noted, he had never seen an M1 destroyed as bad as that one. I agree with krochus, no overload of standard rifle powder could cause that much damage. SA M1's are well made, and to tear it up like that, it had to be a case full of fast burning powder. If the barrel was plugged, you would see the bulge. The guy is lucky to have gotten away with the little physical damage he did. I just don't know about the firing out of battery, I suppose it's a possibility and 50,000 psi being misdirected is nothing to mess with.

NCsmitty
 
I am thinking about contacting a lawyer. Someone needs to buy me a new M1 and compensate me for my hand, which is still stiff and hurting, I just don't know who yet. I am guessing the reloading company.

It sucks that this happened to this guy but it is his fault.

Most people should know that they are taking a gamble when buying someone elses handloads. No one knows what someone else loaded the pressures to in their handloads.

It would be like me drinking water from a pond. I don't know what is in the water, could be nothing, yet on the other hand there could be some weird virus that gives me a stomach flu. After getting sick, it would be like me blaming someone else for it. Instead of taking personal responsibility this man seems to think its someone else's fault that he bought high pressure loads that blew up his gun.

Now he will hire Johnny Ambulance-Chaser and sue someone who had nothing to do with the incident.
 
Quote mr trooper

"koolaid-fueled mental orgies the M1 Garand induces. (referring to documented history of the platform, NOT this incident specifically.) I KNOW for sure that i will never be buying a Garand!

It boggles my mind when people pay TOP dollar for a gun, and then feed it the cheapest ammunition available. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and then fuel it up with 92 octane pump gas from BP...so why would you feed bargain basement ammo to a $1,000 rifle?"


th_002.jpg
 
NO weapon that sensitive to reloads deserves the kind of koolaid-fueled mental orgies the M1 Garand induces. (referring to documented history of the platform, NOT this incident specifically.)

I'm betting that reloaded round that destroyed it was double charged or full of pistol powder, there aren't many rifles that will survive that. Use the right ammo for the right weapon, don't blame the weapon for someone else's foolish mistakes.
 
I think that he's following a different line of thought, mgregg: that comment could well be directed at the M1's narrow band of acceptable port pressures. Lots of M1 owners worry about bending our op rods.

I've got a little voice crying, "pistol powder," too; the KB was just catastrophic.

My reaction to mr.trooper's comment is this: That kool-aid sure tastes good, though, and I'm personally willing to keep feeding just the right ammo, using the best grease I can find and giving lots of TLC -- because I enjoy it. :)
 
Think of it this way... Should a fuel station or oil company be responsible if I am stupid enough to put diesel in my gas truck? The fact that the product may or may not have been defective is irrelevant if the product was improperly used by the consumer.

If the dealership filled your gas truck with diesel thin this would be a similar situation.

The wingnuts sold this guy the M1 and the reloaded ammo to be used together.=Store owner guilty--It is as simple as that. If I owned the store he'd have a shiney new SA M1 and a case of factory ammo he could pick up at his leisure all on my nickel--I think I might throw in an extra gun just to keep him quiet and thank God nobody died.
 
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That's why I always dissemble and inspect every last part of every gun I've ever bought. If the shop owner allows, I do it before I buy. Only when I absolutely have to have it (and I know I can buy replacement parts) will I buy then inspect it.
 
It sucks that this happened to this guy but it is his fault.

Most people should know that they are taking a gamble when buying someone elses handloads. No one knows what someone else loaded the pressures to in their handloads.

I see it a little differently.

The rifle was used, so there's no factory warranty. However, in many states there is still some level of basic warranty protection that should apply.

If the store owner was selling reloads, then those reloads are being loaded commercially not unlike Ultramax, HSM and a number of other names. If the store's making it and selling it commercially then there is still a basic form of liability when it fails to perform fundamentally.

Example: You go to the bread store and pick up some day old bread. Yeah, it's yesterday's leftovers but it doesn't excuse the shop owner if it's made from sawdust instead of flour.

Or - You buy a loaf of day old bread from the store and the store owner gives you a jar of homemade "berry jam" to try on your bread. The berries are actually holly berries, which are poisonous.

The rifle was bought believing it would go "bang" instead of "kaboom". Same with the ammo. Both failed on the first shot. Store owner's got some 'splaining to do.
 
It's a heck of a mess, and I'm glad the guy lived to tell about it.
I don't see how this can be a failure on the part of the weapon. The owner said the bolt was still closed after the shot, and he had to beat it open with a rawhide hammer.
 
I'm glad he's ok, that's unfortunate.

Pulling the facts together, his negligence was at as much fault as the reloader. You should always read your manual first and this explains why. I personally would not shoot someone else's reloads trying to save a few bucks after buying a $1k rifle. Use common sense, know what you're putting in your rifle, and read your manual.

Really glad he's ok to tell his tale.
 
I just read pretty much that entire thread over there!

Major Bummer! Very lucky to be alive....

I'm not a mil. surp. guy or a Garand guy, and even I know that it's not safe to shoot much of the modern factory loads and reloads with the modern powders in Garands.

I see Mr. Trooper's point and have to say I pretty much agree with him about owning a Garand.

I think the Garand is an awesome rifle and respect it greatly, I just don't want to own one personally.

If I had a "garand" (aka $1K), I'd by me and M1A long before I bought an M1.

Donning flame suit.
 
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