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Post here if you can afford....

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by bear71, Jun 29, 2009.

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  1. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    ...$15,000 in attorney fees in a criminal defense and an additional $15,000 in a civil defense on your behalf in a completely justifiable defensive shooting.

    Let's assume that there was no other way to save your life and you would have suredly been killed without the defense.

    Would saving your life lead you to near financial ruin? I've heard people that defend themselves sometimes get fired from their jobs.

    Are there advocacy groups that help defendants that were completely in the right?
     
  2. Grassman

    Grassman Member

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    I can't afford it, but if my life is on the line and it's me or the scumbag trying to kill me, I shoot and worry about the consequences later.
     
  3. yeti

    yeti Member

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    I couldn't afford that either, but if I'm dead I can't even try to dig myself out of that hole, or the one I would find myself in.
     
  4. highorder

    highorder Member

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    Every aspect of a SD shooting would be devastating to me.

    Probably not as devastating as my passing would be to my loved ones, or their passing if I couldn't defend them...
     
  5. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    Thanks for your thoughts, Grassman. I can't quite come to grips with your take yet. I think about it often while carrying. Yours may be the only way to go but it takes something internal to finally digest it. I'm not there yet.

    At present, I'd save my life and immediately think that my kids would be out on the street. They'd still have a Dad though.
     
  6. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    I can afford it. If it were $500,000 I'd find a way to afford it. I've got friends and family that I could stay with after declaring bankruptcy as well.

    If the shooting is completely justifiable, I don't see myself paying for either. Perhaps if there is some question of the justification . . . but if it is, as you wrote, completely justifiable, I don't see it making it past a grand jury and I don't think the civil suit will go very far either.

    It sounds like you already have come to grips with it. You say at present you'd save your life. Those are the options. You can save your life and worry about financial consequences or not save your life and not have to worry about them. I see this as an extremely easy choice.
     
  7. Stirling XD

    Stirling XD Member

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    I think for most of us the desire to preserve our life is greater than the desire to preserve our wealth.
     
  8. Flyboy

    Flyboy Member

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    I'm sure I could find a way to come up with thirty grand in the course of still being alive.
     
  9. Siderite

    Siderite Member

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  10. lebowski

    lebowski Member

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    I can afford it, and would consider it a small price to pay for my life.
     
  11. inSight-NEO

    inSight-NEO Member

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    This is all assuming that it even gets that far (not all HD/PD cases go to trial).

    But, no, I dont have the funds sitting around for such a defense.

    In regards to the other question...Id consider joining the Second Ammendment Club (per Massad Ayoob) as they have many pro-gun lawyers at their disposal, in addition to many other individuals who are very familiar with all aspects of weapons and their use regarding home defense or personal defense and the advocacy thereof. It may not be a sure bet, but it certainly would not hurt tapping into such a pipeline.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  12. blutarsky

    blutarsky Member

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    it's a lose-lose situation, really -- with having to defend your actions, even if it's a good shoot, you potentially face financial ruin ... something you might not be able to afford (never mind the psychological scars). on the other hand, you surely can't afford to do nothing if your life truly depended on it. the question was framed as "there was no other way to save your life" so clearly given that it's a righteous shoot, i'd rather be walking away and dealing with whatever may come than the other possible outcome.

    kind of related -- our CHL instructor had a slide show, and a repeating theme he had throughout the slides was flashing up pictures of various train wrecks, to get the point across that if you mess up and don't have a good shoot you're screwed, your life becoming a veritable train wreck. you better be prepared and practiced, because if for instance you screw up and shoot an innocent by-stander it all falls down on you. and likewise, even if you are totally in the clear, and even with protections of castle doctrine, etc, you're still potentially in it for thousands and thousands in legal fees even if all you face is a grand jury before getting no-billed.

    it seemed pretty bleak, but the point is that you gotta be ready for the responsibility and be ready for what might come with it... but in the end if you accept the responsibility, are confident in your training and preparations, then faced with the situation you describe above you might just be the one walking away from a very bad night, even if you're going to be putting some lawyer's kid through college because of it.
     
  13. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    "It sounds like you already have come to grips with it."

    Yeah, pretty close. Not 100%. Maybe 96%. I have a huge fear of juries in my home state of Minnesota. This is the kind of state where a jury is just itching to make an example out you.

    Kill anything on four legs all day long and we'll consider you a champ but defend your life and you're a worthless scumbag criminal.

    I don't trust Al Franken voters to make the right decision even if I had a hundred eye witnesses testifying on my behalf.
     
  14. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    "I think for most of us the desire to preserve our life is greater than the desire to preserve our wealth."

    And if there is no wealth? Public defender ready to send you off to jail for 20 years rather than 40?
     
  15. gripper

    gripper Member

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    Years ago,I lost a job for defeinding myself WITHOUT a weapon(unless you count thecar door I dented with someone's face)...I did not get charged,as it was a justifiable use of force against two other guys(one of who had a serious size/weight advantage on me);but because some of the tenants saw meat the MIDPOINT of the encounter they drew the entirely wrong conclusion-thus I was asked to seek employment elsewhere.
    I can only imagine the legal/administrative headache you'd face with an anti-employer/ADA/region/etc.....yet I would STILLhave no reservations or hesitation in using lethal force to save MY @ss or someone else's....some things you just can't let go.
     
  16. snorky18

    snorky18 Member

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    Post here if you can afford...

    ^^It's the same question to me. And I would find a way to come up with the money, so long as I still had my life

    As far as "advocacy groups", the only one I know of is http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/ that someone mentioed earlier. IIRC you pay a small premium yearly in exchange for legal representation at discounted rates should something unfortunate happen. It's like homeowner's insurance basically. But I think you have to have it in place before something happens, can't go crying to them afterwards if you haven't been paying your dues.
     
  17. inSight-NEO

    inSight-NEO Member

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    Again...you will not always make it to trial nor will you always be the recipient of a civil suit. I guess it all comes down to probable cause.

    To me, its basically a crap game. All you can do is link up with as many "pro-gun" lawyers/experts as you can, use common sense, and take it from there.

    Yes...losing everything (financially speaking) is a possibility, even if the force was justified...but, Id rather lose my money than my life.

    Join the Second Ammendment Club (among others)...

    http://www.secondamendmentclub.org/
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  18. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    snorky,

    Disagreed on the analogy. There's all kinds of medical assistance programs out there. How often do we see benefits for the ill? Are we going to run a benefit for a justifiable defense shooting? I've never heard of that before.

    Superb link on the "insurance" that's exactly what I was looking for.

    Great post, thanks.
     
  19. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    "Yes...losing everything (financially speaking) is a possibility...but, Id rather lose my money than my life."

    Agreed. I guess I'm thinking two steps ahead. The possibility of sitting in a jail cell with no plan at all might be more than I wish to bare. I'm at the "what next" stage.
     
  20. Jamie C.

    Jamie C. Member

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    I figure if a person is worried about money, then they aren't worried enough about their life.

    As has already been posted, a person can dig themselves back out of a financial hole a helluva lot quicker and easier than a literal one.

    So for me, I don't see where I can afford to do anything other than defend myself, if needed, and deal with whatever else comes up after I survive.


    J.C.
     
  21. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    So what's your plan, Jamie?

    You've trained, you carry, you value your life. Now what?
     
  22. SCKimberFan

    SCKimberFan Member

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    That what is so good about being in a state that respects self-defense (Castle Doctrine). If it is a "good shoot" (legally speaking), then you are exempt from any lawsuit from the perp and/or thier family.
     
  23. Corporal K

    Corporal K member

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    Plenty of folks have spent at least that much on their gun collection over the years.
     
  24. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    Don't they have to find a body before they can charge you with unjustifiably shooting an intruder?
     
  25. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    "Plenty of folks have spent at least that much on their gun collection over the years."

    Do criminal defense attorney's offer the five year payment plan?
     
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