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Postponed Elections?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Zrex, Jul 11, 2004.

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  1. Zrex

    Zrex Member

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  2. TamThompson

    TamThompson Member

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    Yes.

    My personal opinion, which I am entitled to have and to espouse, is that we are being set up and steered towards a martial-law police state.

    An incumbent has a much easier task than a challenger: the challenger has to get in, but the incumbent just has to avoid being removed.

    Even if the incumbent is behind in the polls, he/she can avoid losing an election--and thus stay in power--if the election is not held or postponed.

    Infowars.com, prisonplanet.com, fearorlove.com, and the cable show The Simple Truth.
     
  3. Sleeping Dog

    Sleeping Dog Member

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    No, not troubling at all.

    I'd expect Homeland Security to plan for all kinds of hypothetical situations, just like the Pentagon does. If they draw on election commisions for expertise, fine.

    The 2000 election wasn't decided on election day, if I remember right. Something about legal maneuvering in Florida. That delayed the thing. Somehow the country survived, according to all but Michael Moore.

    Plus, each state holds individual elections to elect the electors. Is Al Queda going to delay them all?

    Regards.
     
  4. Zrex

    Zrex Member

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    I had mixed feelings on this which is why I posted.

    Half of me understands that you should prepare yourself for as many contingencies as possible - (don't forget the 7 P's - Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance). The other half of me sees some sort of slippery slope where congress passes a law allowing postponing elections in an "emergency". But, who defines "emergency"?

    Even my wife who thinks I am a little nutty when it comes to my distrust of the "gummint" did not like the sounds of suspending elections.
     
  5. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    Well, then it's governments responsiblity to prevent an "attack". I paid my taxes and I expect them to find and kill terrorists. If they can't do that, then I want my $$ back. It is not my problem, but I can point them in the right direction-terrorists will most likely be from the middle east. That should narrow down the search some. If NY, or LA or SF gets hit and they are unable to vote, oh well, too bad. The election goes forward or we just live in a dictatorship.
     
  6. Hack

    Hack Member

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    Zrex,

    Welcome.
    This is a sore subject for me.
    I don't believe Al-Qida is stupid enough to attack here prior to our elections because they know we would rally around the president and kerry would then have no chance.
    That's the one thing terrorists don't want.
    I wouldn't worry about any attack here until at least after the election.
     
  7. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    So what do you think they should do?

    Anything from knocking out the power grid in a few major cities or a pipe bomb or drive-by shooting at several polling places would be enough to prevent large numbers of people from voting on election day. Depending on the demographics of the disruptions, the terrorists could get their candidate elected. Any bets on which candidate the terrorists want to win?

    Do we disregard those citizens that are prevented from voting on election day or do we reschedule the election for later? The only other option I see is to have everyone in the US vote by absentee ballot.
     
  8. dave3006

    dave3006 member

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    You have to understand that Osama WANTS GWB to be President. GWB will continue to poor money into and men into the rat hole called the middle east thereby recruiting more terrorists and further bankrupting the USA.

    America will implode financially just like the Soviets. Checkmate Osama.
     
  9. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Hack, history shows that a terrorist learns from the past and repeat success, if an attack in Spain worked immediately prior to an election and removed a government allied to the US, then they will do it here on the hope that Kerry will disengage from the Middle East and give The Base some breathing room to regroup and strike really big here. I would say that an attack on New York City or D.C. or outside chance of Miami (secondary targets--D.C. and Miami) is highly probable. Timed like Madrid, that's what, late October?

    dave, well, the unwise expenditure of resources is always a concern in war. However, to use a historical analogy, did the CSA want Lincoln to win the '64 election so he could continue to pour blood and gold into defeating the traitors or would they root for someone who was understanding of their position and wanted to "negotiate" with the CSA? Or, to use a more ironic example, did not the proto-Taliban want the Soviets to withdraw from Afghanistan so they could recover and fight their allies?

    The Base knows that the only way the West can win is by taking the fight to them and Bush, despite his toleration of Saudi Arabia, is putting the hurt on The Base in the Middle East, Europe and Asia.

    Kerry, because of his own and his party's political priorities, will not be as aggressive. Has Kerry not said that he favors returning, or at least looking, to return to the Clinton Administration's policy of treating terrorism as a criminal prosecution?
     
  10. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Loosen up on the tinfoil, people. Any American citizen of reasonable mind figures it inevitable AQ will try to repeat Madrid. Second, AQ while is sophisticated in execution of its attacks, it has demonstrated a tin ear as to what Americans think is important. Like virtually every other totalitarian of the 20th century, AQ is of the opinion we are soft, mushy, lack resolve, exude cowardice, can not or will not defend ourselves and will run at the sight of our blood. Every last one was wrong.

    AQ will hit us and I think is will be associated with elections whether it be the party conventions or the actual election. Anyone of reasonable mind will say, "Hey, it's gonna happen. Now what will be do if it becomes advisable to postpone an election?" Postpone it not because of tinfoil obstructions of the temporal lobe, but postponement because it is a reasonable thing to do.

    I am no big fan of the Incumbent Party's love affair with statism. At the same time we face Florida Part Deux on Steroids if we don't plan and take reasonable measures. I expect my elected representatives to think and act is a reasonable manner. Failure to plan for disrupted elections in today's world constitutes cause for dismissal of said elected representatives.
     
  11. jdkelly

    jdkelly Member

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    I don't know, but I think...

    I don't know, but I think that by killing hundreds of Americans before the elections, terrorists would bond much of America, and give Bush a platform to be "Presidential" helping Bush, while relegating Kerry and his message(should he get one to replace "I was in Vietnam") to the side lines. I don't feel most of America thinks the Democrats could wage any type of war.

    But by killing few Americans while disrupting our electric power, natural gas, gasoline, and water supplies to make us uncomfortable, would work to the Democrats favor. I think many Americans feel that the Democrats could work a deal and to appease the terrorists to relieve our discomfort.



    Respectfully,

    jdkelly
     
  12. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Wait, imagine if no contingency plans were drawn up.:D Heck, don't we have plans to invade Canada?

    If no plans were made, Mikey Moore would make another movies about this failure to be prepared.:D
     
  13. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    Maybe they should just hold the elections a day early and not tell anyone. Kinda like the handover of the Iraqi government. That'll teach 'em.

    Greg
     
  14. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Canada as a lifeboat.

    Hmmmmmmm. <taps his chin>

    Lemme noodle that one around and I'll get back to ya!
     
  15. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    As usual, the devil would be in the details: An open-ended "permiso" for the President to delay elections? I don't think so. A specific law speaking only to terrorist attacks, defined as a grave national emergency, would then be something which could be brought before SCOTUS if need be.

    Art
     
  16. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    My guess would be 4-5 suicide bombers, or a suicide gas attack in the crowded, hard to evac Pentagon City Metro stop the Thursday or Firday afternoon before the Labor day weekend.

    Advantages to Al-Queda include the facts that it hits the Pentagon again, hit the US close to the election, embarasses the US by hitting the US military close to home base again, etc.
     
  17. Hack

    Hack Member

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    Nah.
    The fact there's a difference between Spain and us is not lost on those cunning terrorist dogs.
    They are not stupid and able to learn only from the past.
    These are educated, war hardened fanatics used to intrigue.
    Spain would certainly have remained right. Terrorists had nothing to lose there and wound up winning big. Spain went left and terrorism won.
    They know of the real good chance that we may naturally vote into office the john/john show. They know a Democrat win would deliver most, if not all their ends, mid-east and elsewere, to them on a platter.
    Why would they rock the boat when not rocking may get 'em kerry?
    A hit after a Bush election would probably have more psychological impact anyway.
    We'll then be in the throes of quintuple ballot counting and whatever other democrap and worn out from worrying all summer over a mythical impending hit somewhere in America.
    Terrorists are enjoying seeing this as to them it's all weakness.
    They're going to do it I have no doubt but in their own time after they've gotten the most bang for the buck.

    History shows me that Americans band together under the Red, White & Blue when threatened.
    I don't know how old you are so I'll use 9/11.
    After that there wasn't a day gone by for many months you didn't hear everybody talking about gettin' em. Sweet little old ladies up here in yankeeville talkin' about whackin' em.
    And everybody stood behind Dubya.
    So much so Bush got lotsa democrabs to go along with lotsa stuff they'd never otherwise have agreed to.
    Democrats had to. The PO'd people would've lynched 'em.
    Who would win now after a pre election strike?
    Tried and true President Bush or lurch?
    That scenario is not the aim of a terrorist or a democrat.

    Point is I think the Admin is pushing a hypothetical a little too much as gospel in an attempt to garner presidential support.
    They know they're scarin' the sheep.
     
  18. spartacus2002

    spartacus2002 Member

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    Here's what I don't get: so what if AQ strikes on Election Day? Unless they are hitting a significant amount of individual polling sites, people are STILL able to cast their votes. And each polling site that is hit (hypothetically) could just cast their votes the next day.

    No need to delay the entire voting day for everyone.

    Is there something I'm missing?

    Now, I'm not one to reach for the tinfoil, but I do not like the idea of giving an administrative agency of unelected bureaucrats the ability to stop/waive/delay elections. Who will have the power? The FEC? The President? Fahzerland Sekurity?

    How many times have we heard the news that OMIGOD, we're ELEVATING THE THREAT LEVEL! Buy your duct tape and plastic! Watch out for floating bags of explosives in harbors! I am reminded of a quote by H.L. Mencken: The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

    I'm just sick of constantly being poked and prodded and being reminded "Be afraid....Be very afraid..." If .gov REALLY cared, then instead of saying "you and your family will never be safe again after 9/11," .gov would be saying "National CCW Legislation! Go buy a gun! We're repealing the AWB and NFA! Don't be a coward, be a badass American ready to defend your family! Oh, and we're doing something about that Mexican border, too."
     
  19. JPL

    JPL Member

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    Legally I don't see how they can do it.

    It will be interesting to see what Justice comes up with.
     
  20. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Yep. You are missing the effect a hyper aggressive media attempting to feed a 24 hour news cycle. One car bomb in a media center like NY or DC or Chicago or LA and the coverage will drive people away from the polls.

    I am convinced the media in this country will not be able to contain itself when the next "major" terror hit occurs.

    Part of the problem with 2000 election was our friends of the media broadcasting their projections before polls had closed. People heard the reports, thought it was "official" and walked out of the poll before voting and before the polls closed. Look for that same behavior at the next terror event in the US.
     
  21. Billll

    Billll Member

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    The first time I heard that the incumbant was going to cancel the elections was in the Nixon administration, from some hippies who were convinced he was personally listening in on their phone conversations. I've heard it about every single administration since. No exceptions.

    November is tinfoil hat month. Wear yours to the polls!
     
  22. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

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    There was once a political cartoon in the Orange County (CA) Register at the time that South Africa was about to have their first national elections. The cartoon had two panels.

    The left hand panel depicted a bombed out car with dead bodies lieing around it. The caption was "What it takes to keep a South African from voting."

    The right hand panel depicted an outstretched arm protruding from a doorway, palm up. The palm was being hit by a single drop of rain. The caption was "What it takes to keep an American from voting."

    If this had been proposed 100, or even 50, years ago there would have been a march on Washington by armed Americans.

    Today, they will be able to get away with this.

    Everything I had heretofore attributed to the aspirations of the Democrats has now come to pass with the Republicans. The abrogations of rights I had attributed to the aspirations of the Democrats has now come to pass with the Republicans.

    I am very disturbed by this.

    AMERICANS AREN'T COWARDS!!!
     
  23. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

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    Billll

    The thing the other tin hat crowd lacked for credibility was an overt act upon which to base this action. We now have an overt act upon which to base this action and I don't like the smell of this at all.

    While it is true that a terrorist act, ala Madrid, will clearly be a vote for Kerry; I abhor the thought that the administration would be able to stop our elections under ANY pretense.

    A terrorist incident in Des Moines should have no bearing whatsoever on the election in any other city in America -- PERIOD!

    The ONLY thing that should stop the election is a terrorist event at a particular polling place and then ONLY for that district. All other polling places should remain open and the election should continue as if nothing occurred at all.
     
  24. Michigander

    Michigander Member

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    July 11, 2004 From Newsweek:
    December 13, 2000 From John Titor :
    (emphasis added to both quotes.)
     
  25. w4rma

    w4rma member

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    Officials discuss how to delay Election Day

    Talks stem from recent fears of terror attack timed to vote
    Sunday, July 11, 2004 Posted: 10:42 PM EDT (0242 GMT)

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. officials have discussed the idea of postponing Election Day in the event of a terrorist attack on or about that day, a Homeland Security Department spokesman said Sunday.

    The department has referred questions about the matter to the Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel, said spokesman Brian Roehrkasse, confirming a report in this week's editions of Newsweek magazine.

    Newsweek said the discussions about whether the November 2 election could be postponed started with a recent letter to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge from DeForest Soaries Jr., chairman of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.
    ...
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/index.html

    Here we go. They're floating this trial balloon to test how the public would take it.
     
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