Potential Straw Purchase Scenario

Let’s say I purchased a firearm on Gunbroker for a friend (I know, friend needs to figure out bidding on his own, but him and computers - that’s another story).

I bring my friend to the FFL and I assume he can fill out the 4473.

1. Would the FFL permit that given that I purchased the firearm (my name on the purchase),
2. If I filled out the 4473 and subsequently did another 4473 transfer to him,

...would any of the above constitute some sort of offense?

 

My son bought me a gun. The FFL wouldn't let me do the 4473. They said i could be doing a straw purchase. They said after he's approved. They can do a transfer to me. For the transfer it would be 25.00. I think they wanted to make an extra 25 bucks. I said let it in my sons name. He will get it after im gone anyways.

To answer your question. If you do the form and get approved. Yes you can then transfer it to him after he gets approved.

 

If the seller knew the info you've told us; yes it would be a straw purchase. The end user does not have to be a prohibited person.

It can be a gray area, because people purchase guns 'for' their kids all the time, (Nobody is going to believe a 6' man is buying a Youth .243 Axis in Muddy Girl camo for himself) and of course they are prohibited persons by definition, but since it is expected the parent will retain control of the gun and supervise it's use, that's generally 'wink wink'd' at.

Keep in mind the seller has the right to refuse a sale if they believe a straw purchase is being attempted. If a 4473 is required for non-FFL transfers or sales in your state, and you tried to do both in my shop, I'd refuse your transfer to him. (Glad I don't have a shop, or work in one anymore.)

 

Thanks, guys.

 

Glockodille is the purchaser. He bought it on GB. So when it is shipped to his FFL he needs to fill out the 4473 and have it transferred to him.

If he then wants to sell it to his friend and that friend is not prohibited than he can sell it to the friend following all the State laws. which may or may not involve another 4473.

Here in FL if I bought the gun on GB I can then sell it to a Fl resident with no 4473 involved.

I am sure DogTown will chime in and set us all straight!

 

I checked out this scenario with my FFL when a friend of mine wanted a specific pistol.
I found what he wanted, he gave me cash, I paid the seller, he sent it to my FFL, we and my friend went to said FFL, and my friend filled out the 4473 and took possession of the firearm.

I was told that, as long as the person taking possession of the firearm is the person that filled out the 4473, it was good.

 

Bruce Abramski's uncle gave him a check to buy a Glock 19. Abramski used his expired LE credentials to get that Glock Blue Label discount and signed the Form 4473 certifying that he was the actual buyer/transferee. Abramski then drove to an FFL in his uncles state of residence and that dealer transferred the Glock to the uncle.

The violation of federal law occurred when Abramski lied on the Form 4473 that he was the actual buyer/transferee. He wasn't. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramski_v._United_States (BTW, Abramski was under investigation for other crimes, thtas how they found the check from his uncle)

Further, As a result of https://www.cohenmilstein.com/case-study/englund-v-world-pawn-exchange-llc-et-al more than a few online retailers are including a warning to the receiving dealer to transfer the firearm to the person named on the invoice only. Although J&G did absolutely nothing wrong, they were included in the lawsuit and paid out $$$$.

TLDR version: Buy your own damn guns & you can always buy a gun to give to someone as a bonafide gift.

 

Absolutely this.

 

What's the statute of limitations for a straw purchase?

 

As I was reading the linked article I was thinking the same thing. J&G had no way of knowing a remote buyer in a different state wasn't buying the firearms for herself, unless it's the expectation that gun dealers should apply gender stereotypes and question why a woman wants to buy an AK.

 

I said he (Glock) needs to fill out the 4473
Did Glock actually say that in is OP.?
He did not say his friend gave him the money. You assumed that. If purchased on GB then payment must be made before it was shipped So the seller revived payment from who exactly?? Glock paid for it. But that is the problem with hypothetical situations.

No actual transfer occurred yet to Glock, the transfer was made to the FFL So he is the one that needs to fill out the 4473.

I go into a gunshop with my best friend, it's his birthday I want to buy him a gun. He picks out one and passes the 4473 background, I pay for it. What's the difference? Is that a straw purchase??
I paid but am not the actual person transferred to.

 

Unless you are forthcoming prior to the transaction about this being a gift........I'll refuse the sale.
What you describe is a classis example of a straw sale.

Federal law doesn't prohibit YOU from buying a firearm, filling out the Form 4473 undergoing NICS and subsequently giving the gun as a bonafide gift to your best friend.
But what you describe does not meet that exception.

Want to get shut down fast? Do what you describe.
Want to gift a friend a gun? Buy the gun yourself per federal law and gift it to him later, give him cash or a gift card/certificate. If you want to accompany him and let him choose......call the dealer beforehand and explain your intentions to gift your friend a gun. The dealer may refuse the transaction, he may be fine with you paying, he may require the payment to come from the best friend.

 

Apologies for the confusion - I read through the replies, and perhaps I should have articulated better - what follows below is what I was thinking of at the time.

1. Let's say I purchased a firearm and paid for it on Gunbroker with the full intent of having my friend be in possession of it. The firearm gets shipped to the FFL.
2. I bring my friend to the FFL (a dealer I am very familiar with but haven't discussed this arrangement in advance), and say that I acquired the firearm through Gunbroker - my friend's eBay and Gunbroker illiterate - but it's really going to him.

• I ask the FFL - can my friend fill in the 4473 and take possession of the firearm, or...
• ...if he can't fill in the 4473 - can I fill it in, take possession of the firearm, and have him do another 4473 to "transfer" possession of the firearm from myself to him

...would any of the above constitute some sort of offense?

 

Not free, but with reimbursement afterwards.

Read the post, thanks.

Those four links below are helpful.

 

That was my "main scenario," actually. I buy online, friend comes with me to the FFL, friend fills in the 4473 for himself, gets the firearm for himself, pays me back later.

Funny - I just got off the phone with my FFL a few minutes ago.

He says - knowing me, he's okay with the first scenario. But say, a total stranger (to him) brought his friend for the same scenario - it'd appear that the friend was committing the straw purchase for the stranger by filling in the 4473, and he'd decline on the basis of suspicion alone.

 

Thanks for all the perspectives - I didn't realize the potential ambiguity of things when making purchases online for other individuals.

 

Here in my state No shop will allow this they will only allow the name on the gunbroker papers be the one to buy it. However my state also does not regulate the sale to "private" sales. meaning that you can complete the purchase as the buyer from the gunbroker paperwork, then just go home and sell it to your friend. I do this sometiimes, but I use a firearms sale release form for all of them. this protects me in the future if he sells it and its used to comit a crime. this paper shows the firearm left my posession and responsibility on such and such date.

its in a mocrosoft word format if anyone is interested in it, just ask and i will upload it.