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Powder coctail

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by jeff-portnoy, Sep 26, 2012.

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  1. jeff-portnoy

    jeff-portnoy Member

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    Hi!
    I have 7.62x25 cases and much Unicue powder! But I've read that Unicue - not the best choice for 7.62x25!
    Please tell me - is it possible to make a powder coctail? Unicue + slower intensity powder?
    ---------
    One more , ... Lee has trimming kit 7.62x25?
     
  2. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Mixing powders is generally a bad idea. I strongly advise against it.
     
  3. jeff-portnoy

    jeff-portnoy Member

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    why ?
     
  4. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I agree with 1911Tuner.

    Nothing is worth having a gun blow up, even if there is a remote chance of it happening, I would not do it! :uhoh:

    I like my fingers, hands, face and body too much to take any chances like that. :eek:

    If you ask why:
    1. Are you a chemist?
    2. Do you have an engineering degree in knowing everything about all the different powders that are made and which were made in the past?
    3. Do you know positively the exact ingredients and how much of each is in each powder you intend to mix?

    If you said NO to any of the three questions, there is your answer.

    If you insist, it is your body, just make sure you don't injure or kill anyone else in the process of your playing with powders!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  5. kingcheese

    kingcheese Member

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    Its not considered a good idea because, you cannot entirely account for the characteristics of the powders together, and its not something that's recommended because you can buy another type of powder that would be good for that round
     
  6. jwrowland77

    jwrowland77 Member

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    Here's how you do it....take all the powder and dump it in a bowl together....and then dump all that powder in your garden or grass and water it in. Makes great fertilizer. It'll green it right up. It is highly dangerous to go mixing powders.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    You have no idea of the new burn rate.

    So, in the words of Sheriff Buford T Justice, "You can think about it, but don't do it".
     
  8. CMD-Ky

    CMD-Ky Member

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    Reload as you choose, you may absolutely correct in your thoughts and actions. That being said, please don't offer your loads to others to shoot and please stand a distance from others when shooting.
     
  9. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    What is the definition of "Unique - not the best choice for 7.62x25"?

    Unique is very versatile. I use it in 380ACP to 45 Colt. Works well.

    I cannot believe Unique by itself would not give adequate performance but I do not load 7.62x25 so I could be wrong.

    To echo the sentiment of the others, mixing powders is a no-no for the home reloader.
     
  10. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    You got some good advise and I would follow them as most of us reloaders don't have access to chamber pressure testing equipment. Besides, if you are load developing for CZ52, you don't know what you don't know about YOUR CZ52 barrel.

    Read Clark's posts on this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1438156#post1438156

    [​IMG]

    Another forum thread discussing reloading 7.62x25 - http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?21284-Back-to-reloading-7-62x25-for-the-CZ-52


    This link has a compilation of 7.62x25 loads with Unique - http://www.makarov.com/tokloaddata.html

    Note: Always verify "internet/online forum load data" with published load data and conduct your own powder work up from start charge.


    Taking Clark's posts into consideration, I suggest you stay with start/lower end of published load data.

    Enjoy your loads with Unique and don't ever mix powders, EVER! :D

    Be safe and keep us posted with a range report!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  11. srtolly

    srtolly Member

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    I can't believe you can't find load data for 7.62x25 using Unique. I have to agree that mixing powders is a bad idea. A lot of good info here.
     
  12. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    Unique should be adequate, and you should be able to find load data for it. Power Pistol or AA#7 is probably what you want for that cartridge. (Where did you find reloadable brass?)

    Don't be mixing powders unless you are an expert at it -- I doubt there are *any* experts on this site, and certainly not you or me. Most reloaders don't even like to mix different lot numbers of the same powder.
     
  13. homatok

    homatok Member

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    Can you mix powders??---Absolutely!!!

    Should you mix powders???---ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! (FOR ALL THE REASONS STATED ABOVE)
     
  14. Lost Sheep

    Lost Sheep Member

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    People used to do it. It was quite common to introduce a bit of faster powder into the case containing a slow, hard-to-ignite powder in order to get consistent ignition.

    Nowadays, we have better primers and better powders.

    From what I understand there are several problems in getting consistent pressure/time curves. (Essential to avoid pressure spikes that tend to destroy firearms and injure or kill those nearby.)

    Mixing of the powders. Sometimes you want the fast powder near the primer and the slower powder further up. But it is hard to keep the two from migrating into one another.

    Unmixing of the powders. Sometimes you may want to have the two powders mixed uniformly. But the nature of powders is that larger granules will tend to separate from smaller granules.

    If you mix the two powders before loading, you don't know how much of each powder is going into your weighed powder charge. Very difficult to control the proportions.
    If you mix by adding a specific amount of each powder into individual cases, you know the proportions, but still don't control the mixing inside the case.

    You can prevent mixing inside the case if you separate the powders with a wad, but then you introduce the additional effect of an extra component and its unknown effect on the pressure-time curve.

    You can limit the mixing effects by using a 100% or compressed load.

    So, it can be done safely. Professionals used to do it all the time. But they ALWAYS had laboratories, pressure test barrels, protective barriers, lots of time and money.

    THIS SHOULD NEVER BE DONE WITHOUT A BALLISTICS LAB!

    What you are contemplating is just short of brewing your own propellant on your kitchen stove.

    In a word. Insane.

    A reasonable question, yes. But insane to contemplate doing.

    Respectfully

    Lost Sheep
     
  15. CZ57

    CZ57 member

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    Ramshot used to list data for the 7.62 X 25mm. Currently they don't but you should be able to contact them with the 800 number given at their website. BTW, Ramshot and Accurate Arms use the same ballistician. Last time I checked, Accurate still listed data for the 7.62 X 25mm. Check out their website. ;)
     
  16. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

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    The main reason why it is a bad idea to mix powders is because it is hard enough to predict a burn rate using a single powder type. Mixing 2 powders is literally a recipe for disaster. It is possible to molecular bind powders together that a few companies have done to some advanced proprietary powders. Such as LR powder or Superformance. Long story short without getting into chemistry, don't do it. Your weapons and safety will thank you.
     
  17. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Im very proud of this forum right now. This is something that almost all of us contemplated when we first started researching reloading. Too many times people get berated or called stupid for thinking about it. None of that here, just education. +1 guys.
     
  18. jeff-portnoy

    jeff-portnoy Member

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    Thanks for complete answer
     
  19. jeff-portnoy

    jeff-portnoy Member

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  20. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    In a rush and had to do a hit and run yesterday...

    All good information by Lost Sheep. Two points that haven't been addressed is that by using a small charge of a quick powder like Bullseye to help ignite a slow powder like H110 or Olin 296 is that it changes the burn characteristics of the slow powder...and it may not burn so slowly any more.

    The other is that the priming charge takes up space in the case, and unless you do a volume-to-volume conversion, you won't know how much of the slower powder to use to maintain a consistent volume. You can drive pressures up significantly by simply adding an inert filler on top of the powder charge and reducing case volume. Reducing the volume in the case drives pressures up. As pressures increase, the powder burns quicker. The quicker the power burns, the more rapidly the pressure increases, etc etc.
     
  21. kingcheese

    kingcheese Member

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    In my lyman replacing book it adresses that issue, the proper way to go about it is to look at published data and go for the fastest burning powder that you can safely come closest to filling the case with, and the book list its charts so that the first load with a given projectile is the best for meeting those requirements
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I did an experiment with some leftover AA #5 and HS-6. I mixed equal amounts very thoroughly and loaded some 9MM and .45 ACP with it. I used AA #5 data since it was the faster of the two. I started low, thankfully. The velocities I got were quite a bit faster than they should have been assuming the burn rates of the two powders was not affected. This was only a small test with two powders, but it was enough to show me that burn rates do not necessarily remain the same when powders are mixed.

    So, I'll quote 1911tuner again.

    I used the rest for fertilizer. :)
     
  23. homatok

    homatok Member

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    Posted by Lost Sheep:
    "People used to do it. It was quite common to introduce a bit of faster powder into the case containing a slow, hard-to-ignite powder in order to get consistent ignition."

    The process was/is called duplex(ing) loads and is very different from what I thought the OP was asking. As pointed out, duplexing involves placing a measured amount of a fast powder over the primer and then carefully adding the slower powder on top. The powders are not allowed to mix! Sucess, as also pointed out, requires the case to be filled with (slightly compressed) powder(s) or the use of filler to accomplish the same thing.
     
  24. Lost Sheep

    Lost Sheep Member

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    A little off-topic

    Imagine what it was like using Cordite and count our blessings.

    Lost Sheep
     
  25. wtr100

    wtr100 Member

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    I think the mixing was called a booster charge and was done with cases that were filled nearly to the top with powder
     
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