Powders for warm 45 Colt loads

[jimboecv]

I've got a 5.5" Blackhawk and a Uberti 1873 w/24" bbl, 8 grains of Unique under a Missouri 255gr coated lead does what I want.

 

[AgPilot]

AA5744 not good for pistols.

Had a Buddy just today give Me some 5744 just for My 45Colt Pistol. He said good stuff. I’ve never used any of this powder. Can You tell Me why You say not good for pistols in more detail? I hate to waste time loading them if it’s not worth it. I have other powders to use. But wanted to try the 5744 too.
Thanks!!!

 

[kidneyboy]

I had the same thought.

It's kind of interesting he tested all of those powders but skipped the one with the longest and most respected history for the round: Unique. Probably because it's been done before and anybody who can type can find reams published on loading .45Colt with Unique. Still, it's got a proven track record in both handgun and rifle.

Yep. 8.5gr of Unique under a 250 anything run great in my Henry Carbine and 7.5" Vaquero.

 

[black mamba]

5744 is just too slow for the 45 Colt. Even with 270 grain bullets at tier II pressure levels, you get lots of unburnt powder in 5" revolvers. My GRT ballistic program shows 22 grains of 5744 under a 305 gr bullet at 31 kpsi giving only a 67% propellant burn.

 

[AgPilot]

5744 is just too slow for the 45 Colt. Even with 270 grain bullets at tier II pressure levels, you get lots of unburnt powder in 5" revolvers. My GRT ballistic program shows 22 grains of 5744 under a 305 gr bullet at 31 kpsi giving only a 67% propellant burn.

Thanks!

 

[Jesse Heywood]

For me 4227 usually works best in compressed loads. Highly accurate, but dirty without magnum primers. I also like 800-X with SPM and burns cleaner, but is 100 fps slower

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would not use AA5744 in any pistol load including the 45 Colt.

I think HS-6 is the answer to your question. Remember to use a magnum primer. I tried many powders in the 45 Colt, some more successful than others. W231 was my main powder until I switched to HS-6.

Warning: your charge of 8.2 gr W231 is extremely hot, possibly dangerous. It is almost a full grain over what I would use. 7.2 gr is my hot load of W231.

Good luck...

 

[mrawesome22-250]

Another HS-6 convert here after reading the Linebaugh article.

800-X also produces amazing groups but sadly has been discontinued.

Blue Dot has been impressive also for "hot" (modern) 45Colt loads.

https://www.johnlinebaughcustomsixguns.com/writings

 

[Charlie98]

Had a Buddy just today give Me some 5744 just for My 45Colt Pistol. He said good stuff. I’ve never used any of this powder. Can You tell Me why You say not good for pistols in more detail? I hate to waste time loading them if it’s not worth it. I have other powders to use. But wanted to try the 5744 too.
Thanks!!!

5744 is just too slow for the 45 Colt.

AA5744 is the equivalent of IMR4198, I use them interchangeably (for the purpose, not charge data. They perform very similarly, but the loads are materially different) and I would no more use IMR4198 for .45 Colt than anything, either. Yes, there is data for it, and obviously there are users of it in handgun loads, but I don't see why when there are better powders for the role. Now, you load AA5744 (or IMR4198) in a rifle cartridge with a cast bullet, and you won't find a better powder for low- to midrange loads.

 

[AgPilot]

AA5744 is the equivalent of IMR4198, I use them interchangeably (for the purpose, not charge data. They perform very similarly, but the loads are materially different) and I would no more use IMR4198 for .45 Colt than anything, either. Yes, there is data for it, and obviously there are users of it in handgun loads, but I don't see why when there are better powders for the role. Now, you load AA5744 (or IMR4198) in a rifle cartridge with a cast bullet, and you won't find a better powder for low- to midrange loads.

Thanks Charlie!!

 

[Joe Texas]

Morning all. I’m following this because I got a RBH in 45 colt and have not loaded nor fired it yet. I did pin gauge the cyl and it’s .454, I have not checked the throat or bbl yet.
I will cast for this and will not load hot or my arthritis will keep me from shooting it again.
So Joe, no one asked about the kaboom ? Can you elaborate some which firearm and extent of damage ? Glad your not hurt I presume.

“Kaboom: 26.0 W-296/H110, 250 XTP. Deer/hog slayer.”

Mike

It’s just a load that’s uncomfortable in the revolver but awesome in the rifle. 1663 muzzle velocity and really accurate.

 

[Joe Texas]

Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I just think he was referring to the report of that load... which very likely sounded like a kaboom out of a 5.5" pistol. 26grn H110 is in the middle of Hodgdon's data for Ruger-only loads, so unless the pistol was unserviceable, it's unlikely it actually came apart.

Exactly. My gun and I are both fine and serviceable. Lol.

 

[Charlie98]

It’s just a load that’s uncomfortable in the revolver but awesome in the rifle. 1663 muzzle velocity and really accurate.

I've got a .41 load... the Cast Performance 250grn FN/GC over a healthy charge of H110... it shoots fantastic out of my Marlin, better than IMR4227 or 2400. It's not fun out of the pistol, it's not really that much fun out of the rifle... but results are results. Granted, it's not a cheap load, either.

 

[Joe Texas]

I had the same thought.

It's kind of interesting he tested all of those powders but skipped the one with the longest and most respected history for the round: Unique. Probably because it's been done before and anybody who can type can find reams published on loading .45Colt with Unique. Still, it's got a proven track record in both handgun and rifle.

it is strange that I’ve never wanted to try Unique. I’ve used plenty of Bullseye in .38 special. Now I use Titegroup instead. I guess I just thought Unique would be like Bullseye - famous from a time with less options around its burn rate. There are folks that are convinced that a giant meplat is more effective than a modern hollowpoint projectile too. Maybe they’re right. What do I know?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

it is strange that I’ve never wanted to try Unique. I’ve used plenty of Bullseye in .38 special. Now I use Titegroup instead. I guess I just thought Unique would be like Bullseye - famous from a time with less options around its burn rate.

That's why we got choices.

The only real hangup to me with the one load for all idea is what you're giving up. A really great rifle load is punishing in a handgun and any really good handgun load is bound to leave room for improvement in the rifle. The barrel length and action type, loading mechanism, you end up with mediocre times two. At least, that was my experience when I tried it with .357Magnum and .44-40WCF. My rifle loads for my Handi-Rifle in .357Magnum are not for the Blackhawk. Not because they're too powerful, they're too long for the cylinder.

 

[Joe Texas]

I would not use AA5744 in any pistol load including the 45 Colt.

I think HS-6 is the answer to your question. Remember to use a magnum primer. I tried many powders in the 45 Colt, some more successful than others. W231 was my main powder until I switched to HS-6.

Warning: your charge of 8.2 gr W231 is extremely hot, possibly dangerous. It is almost a full grain over what I would use. 7.2 gr is my hot load of W231.

Good luck...

Yeah, I don’t know what question you are referring to that HS-6 answers in the same universe where an extra grain of 231 is a concern. It was worked up to over a chronograph and isn’t near as hot as some of the others listed. We are discussing Tier 2-3 “Ruger only” pressures and velocities. I think your “warm” 7.2 keeps you under SAMMI specs of 14k. 7.3 is Hodgdon’s published max with a 250 xtp. If I were to try HS-6 (which I’ve considered) I would start well above 14k. Do you think HS-6 could produce superior velocities at less pressure than 3N37, 3N38, or N105? What are some of your favorite HS-6 loads?

 

[Charlie98]

I’ve used plenty of Bullseye in .38 special. Now I use Titegroup instead.

Never used Bullseye, although many champion it... yes, Unique filled that bill. I've also tried TiteGroup... I hate the stuff. But... different strokes for different folks... there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Joe Texas]

Never used Bullseye, although many champion it... yes, Unique filled that bill. I've also tried TiteGroup... I hate the stuff. But... different strokes for different folks... there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Agreed. I’m probably missing out by not trying Unique and HS-6.

 

[robert4301]

The original Vaquero the OP seems to have is safe with hot loads being talked about in this thread. It should be noted the New Model Vaquero has a smaller frame and cylinder and cannot use these hot 45 Colt loads.

 

[Ru4real]

What are some of your favorite HS-6 loads?

MBC 255 grain Kieth Hi-Tek 18 Brinnel hardness coated over 13.0 grains HS-6 lit by CCI-350 for velocities
1080 fps in a 4”
1155 fps in a 6”
1220 fps in a 7.5”
1510 fps in a 20”

Pass thru on Elk. Two 452 drain holes.

 

[joneb]

A favorite powder for me is the over looked WSF a bit slower than Unique but it meters it very well, in 9x19 and 44 spl.it has proved to me to be a real contender for powder options in the 17-30K pressure range

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would start well above 14k. Do you think HS-6 could produce superior velocities at less pressure than 3N37, 3N38, or N105? What are some of your favorite HS-6 loads?

I can't speak to VV powders, they are not available where I live. Do as you see fit, be safe...

 

[Joe Texas]

MBC 255 grain Kieth Hi-Tek 18 Brinnel hardness coated over 13.0 grains HS-6 lit by CCI-350 for velocities
1080 fps in a 4”
1155 fps in a 6”
1220 fps in a 7.5”
1510 fps in a 20”

Pass thru on Elk. Two 452 drain holes.

That’s interesting that you got almost 300 fps velocity increase from a 7.5” barrel to a 20”. I can only assume the difference is lead vs. jacketed. I’m a big fan of MBC’s Hi Tek coated bullets. I’ve been hesitant to push ‘em that hard w/o a gas check which I have zero experience with - thus, the jhp use. I’m a big fan of MBC’s Hi Tek coated bullets. My last order took 5 months though. I haven’t ordered from them since.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

Don’t overlook the original, that is, a black powder cartridge. You can make life simple bu using a good black powder sub like APP or Triple Seven. Those Cowboy .45 Special cases are great for black powder.

 

[Charlie98]

That’s interesting that you got almost 300 fps velocity increase from a 7.5” barrel to a 20”.

Depends on which powder you are using, of course. The slower the powder, the more likely you will pick up some significant velocity. I don't have as much data for .45 Colt as I do the .41MAG... I just got my .45 Colt H&R... but the most significant comparison I have is the 270grn cast over IMR4227... 950fps in my 5.5" Vaquero, but 1500fps out of the H&R. Same bullet, but over a smaller charge of 2400... the same 950fps from the pistol, 1125fps from the rifle, but it was not a full charge, for some reason. Looking at my .41 data, with full charges of slower powders, 300-500fps increase between rifle and pistol is the norm.