IcemanUnlimited
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Since these guns and ammo are usually inexpensive it would be easy to get in LOTS of practice.. My question is: would practice with a .22LR also improve your skill with other calibers?
Practicing With .22LR Handgun
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Liberty1776
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Absolutely. The principles of sight alignment, trigger control, etc are what's important to learn. They will absolutely carry through when shooting the big bores. To get really good, I've read it''s a good idea to shoot at least 100-1 (.22 to big bore)
I have .22s that match my favorite centerfire handguns. When I go to the range, I will often take the pair, the centerfire gun and rimfire surrogate, with me. Most of my shooting will be done with the rimfire. After I have gotten things satisfactorily polished with the rimfire, then I will shoot the centerfire gun. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the centerfires, and saves a pile of money.
The photo is a pair for this discussion. The 617, .22 is as identical to the 627PC as I can get it. Grips, weight, balance, trigger pull: all are identical. Makes the 617 an ideal subcaliber surrogate for me to practice inexpensively and effectively. It still helps to shoot the centerfire gun, but I can reduce the amount I shoot it to stay reasonably proficient.
The photo is a pair for this discussion. The 617, .22 is as identical to the 627PC as I can get it. Grips, weight, balance, trigger pull: all are identical. Makes the 617 an ideal subcaliber surrogate for me to practice inexpensively and effectively. It still helps to shoot the centerfire gun, but I can reduce the amount I shoot it to stay reasonably proficient.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Absolutely, 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt. 
yhtomit
Member
How could it not?
At the very least, it helps get over the slight tendency to flinch that I suspect at least 9 out of 10 people have. And reasonably have, too -- guns are refined and generally pay some attention to ergonomics, but the fact that you're holding a dangerous tool *should* make you cautious. Shooting with a soft-recoiling .22 helps keep that "cautious" rather than "nervous," which is what lots of new shooters feel about firing anything stouter.
timothy
At the very least, it helps get over the slight tendency to flinch that I suspect at least 9 out of 10 people have. And reasonably have, too -- guns are refined and generally pay some attention to ergonomics, but the fact that you're holding a dangerous tool *should* make you cautious. Shooting with a soft-recoiling .22 helps keep that "cautious" rather than "nervous," which is what lots of new shooters feel about firing anything stouter.
timothy
My main teaching pistol is a 9mm Sig 226ST, but believe me it gets a lot more work with the factory .22lr conversion kit.
What I like about a conversion kit is that you retain the same control locations and the same trigger feel as you CF gun
What I like about a conversion kit is that you retain the same control locations and the same trigger feel as you CF gun
Dry firing is another way to get a good amount of practice. It allows you to practice sight alignment and trigger manipulation. The nice thing about dry firing is you do not need to go to a range. A blank wall is all you really need.
oldfool
Member
absolutely, yes
actually, all shooting with just about anything has some carryover value in shooting others; I would go so far as to say that even applies, at core level, to rifles "vs" handguns
handguns, dry fire practice is good, live fire practice is better
to maximize the value of rimfire practice, clone your centerfire gun as best you can
conversion kits in autloaders, as 9mm said
wheelguns, if you look hard enough, can probably find something pretty close, if lucky in your choices, far better than merely close
guns I like for practice companions are S&Ws k-17 and/or k-48 rimfires for k-19/66 357s
and Taurus model 96 rimfire for Taurus model 66 357
that gives me five (7 actually) all 6" wheelies, all same/similar grips, all same/same in hand; do enough of that, mix and match, it matters not what caliber you hold in hand, they will all hit same/same for you
but there is nonetheless a lot of value in shooting rimfire companions even if not all that close a match, if at least same action type
thank gosh for 22 rimfire, 300-400 rounds of centerfire a week would break my piggy bank !
actually, all shooting with just about anything has some carryover value in shooting others; I would go so far as to say that even applies, at core level, to rifles "vs" handguns
handguns, dry fire practice is good, live fire practice is better
to maximize the value of rimfire practice, clone your centerfire gun as best you can
conversion kits in autloaders, as 9mm said
wheelguns, if you look hard enough, can probably find something pretty close, if lucky in your choices, far better than merely close
guns I like for practice companions are S&Ws k-17 and/or k-48 rimfires for k-19/66 357s
and Taurus model 96 rimfire for Taurus model 66 357
that gives me five (7 actually) all 6" wheelies, all same/similar grips, all same/same in hand; do enough of that, mix and match, it matters not what caliber you hold in hand, they will all hit same/same for you
but there is nonetheless a lot of value in shooting rimfire companions even if not all that close a match, if at least same action type
thank gosh for 22 rimfire, 300-400 rounds of centerfire a week would break my piggy bank !
Yes and no
Yes, 22 caliber guns will help you learn the basics, and provide for lots of cheap shooting fun, as others have already said. Sight alignment and, trigger control, are "basics" that are learned with practice and, in general, remain constant from gun to gun, regardless of caliber. However, ergonomics, triggerpull/weight and, recoil will all have an impact on how you shoot a particular gun or type of gun. Some people shoot semi-auto pistols fine and can't hit the broad side of a barn with a double action revolver. Also, the type of shooting you are doing matters a lot when going from a 22 to a center fire. If, for example, you are shooting two similar guns, one in 22 and,the other in 357 magnum at small targets, at long distances, there really isn't a lot of difference in principals. All of that changes when you add speed into the mix. Recoil now becomes a factor which has to be controlled and accounted for.
So, if you can, keep the guns as similar as possible. Conversion kits are great for some, though I would rather just buy another gun, and offer the advantage of familiarity. I own a bunch of 1911's and just picked up a GSG22mostly because of all the good reviews. If you are thinking about buying a 22 just to plink with and want something really accurate, you really can't beat a heavy barreled Mark II or III. I have owned at least a half dozen of these and they all shoot incredibly well. The trigger leaves a lot to be desired, but that is it's only downfall.
Yes, 22 caliber guns will help you learn the basics, and provide for lots of cheap shooting fun, as others have already said. Sight alignment and, trigger control, are "basics" that are learned with practice and, in general, remain constant from gun to gun, regardless of caliber. However, ergonomics, triggerpull/weight and, recoil will all have an impact on how you shoot a particular gun or type of gun. Some people shoot semi-auto pistols fine and can't hit the broad side of a barn with a double action revolver. Also, the type of shooting you are doing matters a lot when going from a 22 to a center fire. If, for example, you are shooting two similar guns, one in 22 and,the other in 357 magnum at small targets, at long distances, there really isn't a lot of difference in principals. All of that changes when you add speed into the mix. Recoil now becomes a factor which has to be controlled and accounted for.
So, if you can, keep the guns as similar as possible. Conversion kits are great for some, though I would rather just buy another gun, and offer the advantage of familiarity. I own a bunch of 1911's and just picked up a GSG22mostly because of all the good reviews. If you are thinking about buying a 22 just to plink with and want something really accurate, you really can't beat a heavy barreled Mark II or III. I have owned at least a half dozen of these and they all shoot incredibly well. The trigger leaves a lot to be desired, but that is it's only downfall.
When I decided to get a large caliber CF pistol for home defense, I also decided to get a .22 for practice. The value of this became obvious after pricing ammo for the two guns. I shoot at an indoor range where I have to buy the ammo as well. A box of 100 rnds of .22 cal is $8. 100 rounds of .40 cal is $36.
When I was in the Navy Reserve (50 years ago) we shot the .45 once in a while but the .22 version of the 1911 quite frequently. That taught me the value of doing that. It does indeed help cure flinching and other problems related to the recoil.
I knew I wanted a S&W M&P for my CF so I got the S&W 22a which has very similar grips. It turns out the trigger is similar too. Also the heft and feel are very similar. It is definitely good for training and for practice.
Decide first on what kind of handgun you want for your main heavy caliber gun. Then get a similar gun in .22 cal. In many makes of guns you can find similar pairs.
When I was in the Navy Reserve (50 years ago) we shot the .45 once in a while but the .22 version of the 1911 quite frequently. That taught me the value of doing that. It does indeed help cure flinching and other problems related to the recoil.
I knew I wanted a S&W M&P for my CF so I got the S&W 22a which has very similar grips. It turns out the trigger is similar too. Also the heft and feel are very similar. It is definitely good for training and for practice.
Decide first on what kind of handgun you want for your main heavy caliber gun. Then get a similar gun in .22 cal. In many makes of guns you can find similar pairs.
Absolutely practicing with a 22lr will improve your shooting with larger calibers. However, having the same design and trigger are a HUGE help, so see if you can find a 22lr conversion, or dedicated gun that is based on the same design as your primary gun, or at least close. An example being a AA conversion for glocks, or a marvel/etc conversion for a 1911 (or a GSG dedicated gun).
I like to have a .22 understudy for my center fire revolvers.
I've even got a set of those .22lr inserts that Sportsmans guide sells for my .45 Blackhawk.
Not terribly accurate, but make for great inexpensive practice at self defense type range. Can hit the plate machine fairly regularly with them at 40 feet.
I've even got a set of those .22lr inserts that Sportsmans guide sells for my .45 Blackhawk.
Not terribly accurate, but make for great inexpensive practice at self defense type range. Can hit the plate machine fairly regularly with them at 40 feet.
IcemanUnlimited
Member
Would practicing with rimfire to use centerfire make a difference though?
Yes it will
I will give you two reasons, but there are more.
1) It will show you when you are flinching and will help you eliminate that issue (with live ammo, not just dry fire drills or dummy rounds). Then switch back to centerfire and shoot a bit. Then switch back. Going back and forth, for me, made me shoot centerfire much better.
2) you can shoot A LOT more for the same amount of money so you should be able to get a lot more trigger time. I couldn't go to the range and shoot a few hundred rounds of 9mm once or twice a week, but I can with 22lr.
Of course, particularly if using similar platforms. The only real differences might be recoil, weight, and capacity. I always follow my rimfire practice with a mag (or cylinder) or two from my centerfire gun, sort of a reminder of what it feels like.
I carry a 9mm 1911 on duty and shoot both it and a .45acp 1911 in IDPA. I bought a GSG 1911-22 for practice. It is set up the same way as my centerfire guns, has the same ergonomics, and I use the same gear for all three. The only difference is a bit of weight and recoil. I can shoot 3-5x (or more) as much ammo with the .22 for the same price as the 9mm and .45 and that extra trigger time has definitely translated into improved skills and scores for me.
This is a pic of my Springfield Loaded and my GSG-
a gun is a gun....a bullet it a bullet.......makes no difference to the brain/ body......
it may actually be better to learn on a .22 because you are not worried about trying to overcome recoil.....which causes a lot of really bad habits.
also, it is cheaper and easier on the body....thus you will in inevitably shoot more often....thus...more practice.
dont get the illusion that simply because it is a low power round....that a .22 isnt a "real gun".....
some of most accurate shooters in the world can be seen in the olympic Air gun and Small bore categories.....and i can guarantee you they would be just as accurate if you put any caliber gun in their hands.
22-rimfire
Member
IcemanUnlimited said...
Absolutely!
Absolutely!
It even helps to shoot a revolver in 22 when you might shoot a centerfire pistol. You don't sound convinced. You also seem to think that the 22 handgun should be "inexpensive" because it shoots relatively inexpensive ammunition. That is a big misconception. You pay for quality and we all would prefer to shoot quality firearms.
Absolutely!
Absolutely!
It even helps to shoot a revolver in 22 when you might shoot a centerfire pistol. You don't sound convinced. You also seem to think that the 22 handgun should be "inexpensive" because it shoots relatively inexpensive ammunition. That is a big misconception. You pay for quality and we all would prefer to shoot quality firearms.
NMGonzo
Member
Shooting is shooting.
Vern Humphrey
Member
You bet practice with a .22 will improve your shooting skills with larger cartridges. In fact, I like to use my Colt Service Ace conversion to practice practical shooting skills -- the extra "flip" added by the floating chamber aids in learning to control full-caliber recoil. I also like to practice long-distance shooting (out to 135 yards) with my Colt Officers Model Target in .22.
I read that to ask if there was a downside...there isn't.
While a CF handgun will have more recoil/muzzle flip, if you are using a proper technique in your RF practice it will make no difference. The splits between shots will be longer, as the muzzle will flip higher, but the technique you'll use is identical for followup shots.
I offer as proof, the Japanese shooters who do all their practice with airsoft handguns and have been able to come to America to do well in Major matches...without checking, I want to say it was the Bianchi Cup, but I might be mistaken. It isn't about recoil control, it is about trigger management
I shoot several hundred rounds of 22 lr at various distances and moving towards the target and away and all kinds of scenarios every time I go to the range. I shoot over a thousand rounds per month. At the end of each training session I only shoot between 2 to 3 clips of my 1911. In my opinion this allows me and my muscle to remember what to expect from my 1911 in the form of recoil and helps me remember my sight alignment for my carry gun.
Shooting 22 lr is one of the smartest things you will ever do or the most stupidest thing if you do not do it, unless you are rich like daddy warbucks, than this thread does not apply to you.
Shooting 22 lr is one of the smartest things you will ever do or the most stupidest thing if you do not do it, unless you are rich like daddy warbucks, than this thread does not apply to you.
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