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Pre 64 Model 70

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by highpower, Apr 2, 2013.

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  1. highpower

    highpower Member

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    I have wanted one of these for years. The prices on them stopped me from owing one until a few days ago. I work part time in a gun store and this particular rifle, a Featherweight in .30-06, has been in the consignment rack for about three-four months now and I believe that it hadn't sold due to it being priced way too high and the fact that the stock was cut and a recoil pad added.

    The owner finally decided to come down to a more reasonable price and since I felt that he was finally in a mood to deal I made him an offer and he accepted it. There was a set of scope rings on it but no scope to go with them.

    At the same time there was a vintage Kollmorgan scope in the shop for sale, but since they have an odd size tube (28mm) and the rings and mounts that were with it were for a pre 64 Model 70 no one was really interested in it (can you see where this is going?)

    The rifle shows a lot of what I call hunting wear, carried a lot in search of game, but shot very little. The bore is absolutely pristine, and the action is a smooth as can be.

    For those that are nor familiar with the Kollmorgan brand scopes, they were made after WWII by the Kollmorgan Optical Co.. Kollmorgan made optical devices for the US Navy during the war and after the war was over switched to civilian production making rifle scopes among other things.

    They were very high quality optics and were among the best to be had at the time. Their scope line was bought out by Redfield in 1958 and production was moved from New York to the Redfield factory.

    I was very excited to be able to mate these two together. The rifle was made in 1956 and I believe that the scope dates to right around that time. After all these years the scope is as clear as the day it was made and the adjustment knobs move as smooth as butter.

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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  2. IlikeSA

    IlikeSA Member

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    Beautiful!
     
  3. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    highpower, that's a great rifle. I've had a lot of experience with them and you couldn't buy a better rifle in today's market. Your rifle was actually made in 1957. Winchester started the year with serial No. 393,596 and ended with 425,283. I can also tell that the previous owner added a Pachmayr F325 field pad which is also good. If that pad is hard and dry you should have a competent gunsmith replace it with a Pachmayr decelerator pad. For a hunting rifle adding the pad doesn't decrease the value. If the trigger pull is too hard remove the barreled action from the stock and using two 1/4 inch wrenches back the retaining nuts on the trigger spring all the way to the trigger. Don't ever let anyone talk you into free floating the barrel, leave the barrel channel in its original condition. To me it looks like the scope is mounted a little too high but you may be able to shoot it that way. If you are a handloader work up a load of 150 grain Speer boattail bullets with 51 grains of IMR 4064 and a magnum primer. I haven't had one that wouldn't shoot minute of angle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  4. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    My younger brother has it's twin in .308wcf. His had a similar recoil pad added but the stock hadn't been cut. I ordered an orginal butt pad from GunParts.com for him and he returned it to orginal condition. (Added length of recoil pad was too long for him). Besides, the recoil from an '06 or .308 doesn't justify a pad IMO.

    I'll second the load of IMR4064 and a 150gr bullet for the '06. However, I'll add that it needs to be a Sierra, Speer, or Nosler bullet to guarentee that it will shoot moa.(If the bullet isn't MOA the rifle surely isn't).

    My brother uses exclusively Nosler 150gr Partitions in his .308 at essentially .30/06 velocities (2,900fps chrono'd on two different chrono's at different times. He uses H4895.... and an over-book charge, but isn't "hot" in his gun... He's taken a half dozen elk, several dozen mule deer, an antelope, desert big-horn ram, and an assortment of pigs and whitetail deer....
     
  5. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    That is very cool. Nice find.
     
  6. Orkan

    Orkan Member

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    Gotta respect the old beauties!
     
  7. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    Ouote: "I'll second the load of IMR4064 and a 150gr bullet for the '06. However, I'll add that it needs to be a Sierra, Speer, or Nosler bullet to guarentee that it will shoot moa.(If the bullet isn't MOA the rifle surely isn't)."

    I agree with what GooseGestapo said about the bullet. I could have used the words any good bullet but I used Speer as an example because they are really effective on game animals. Also, I get a chuckle when someone makes a negative comment about a hunting rifle having a recoil pad. A good pad will really improve the shooting ability for most people.
     
  8. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Highpower;

    Those Buehler rings & mounts are fairly valuable in & of themselves. I'm not a collector in that market, but I do know that they're probably worth a little more than you might think.

    Yup, use a 150 grain bullet from Speer, Sierra, or Hornady, Winchester brass, CCI large rifle primer, and somewhere from 58 to 60 grains of IMR4350 and you'll get a good load for that gun.

    900F
     
  9. highpower

    highpower Member

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    Thanks for the info about the rifle and the reloading data. Thankfully, the recoil pad is still in good condition and won't need replacing.

    I am curious about one thing, and that is the bullet weight. I have reloaded for many years for my .30 caliber target rifles (M1 Garand and M1A National Match) with a 168gr boattail match bullet. This is in rifles with a one in ten rifling twist and they all shot superbly using IMR 4895 in the .30-06 and 748 in the M1A. It also shot well in my Springfield '03 National Match. Does anyone know what the rate of twist on these Model 70's is?

    I ask because I haven't worked up any loads for this rifle yet and I would like to find a good universal load to shoot everything from Pigs to Elk.
     
  10. handloader357

    handloader357 Member

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    A few years back I needed a hunting rifle so my dad gave me his beloved pre-64 M70 30-06 featherweight. It's an absolute pleasure to carry in the Colorado mountains! Mine too has an aftermarket pad on it but hasn't been cut.

    Along with the rifle I got the Norma brass he's had since the mid 60's. He swears by 56 grains of 4350 w/ a 180 grain bullet and the brass shows its a good load. Primers still seat tight, no case head expansion and slim to no need to trim. Another good load he swears by if you're in a hurry is a case full of 4350 and a 150 grain bullet. It's virtually impossible to put too much 4350 in a 06 case when using 150 grain bullets.

    Also like you said, carried lots and shot very little. I'm sure that's the case with most of the featherweights. Great score man!

    Edit: Probably worth mentioning, Norma brass is like most commercial brass. If using that load in military/remington brass back it off 2 grains due to case wall thickness.
     
  11. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    highpower, the rate of twist in your 30-06 rifle is 1:10. The Winchester featherweight for 308 Winchester cartridge has a 1:12 twist. I have tried IMR 4895 in the 30-06 with 150 grain bullets as well as IMR 4064 and IMR 4350. I continue to let the powders go head to head every time I go to the range and I shoot them in more than one rifle. I would rate IMR 4064 to be the most accurate, IMR 4350 to be an accurate second (little difference), and IMR 4895 to come in third. Remember that I am talking about 2850/2900 fps hunting loads in a bolt action rifle. If I remember correctly the IMR 4895 military load was 47 grains with a 150 grain bullet but you need to go up to 49 grains to get hunting velocity in non military cases. When you get to 165 grain bullets in the 30-06 I like 57 grains of IMR 4350. In fact, the difference in weight between a 150 and 165 grain bullet is so small that 57 grains of IMR 4350 with either bullet weight from the same manufacturer will almost shoot at the same point of impact at 200 yards. You can do this with IMR 4350 but not IMR 4064 or IMR 4895 because the pressure gets too high when you increase the bullet weight by 15 grains.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  12. whetrock

    whetrock Member

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    Looks grand. Has a lot of what I'd call "honest wear", which adds a great deal of charm IMO. I'm just glad somebody along the way didn't refinish it. I don't know much about pre-64s, but this looked to good not to comment.
     
  13. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    I think you have all you will ever need in a full size full power bolt action rifle.

    I am sensitive to recoil so I shoot my .270 FWT with reduced recoil loads.
     
  14. highpower

    highpower Member

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    Thanks Sage. I am going to try the 4064 first and see how well it shoots. Twenty years ago I bought 5,000, 165gr bullets from the DCM and I still have a few of them left. I will play with the loads and see just what kind of accuracy I can wring out of the old girl.

    Now to try and find some powder........
     
  15. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    after reading this thread,i think i,ll take this win model 70 i bought from a dear friend(who has since passed) who had to give up hunting,he said he only hunted it a few years and it was a safe queen for over 50 years. it is a standard weight in 3006 serial number 269416 and had a old weaver on it and is in ex condition. i think i,ll put a older 4x leupold scope on it and take it hunting this fall. eastbank.
     

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  16. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    highpower, with IMR 4064 and a Speer 165 grain boattail bullet I worked up to 49.5 grains with a magnum primer. Accuracy is good but I haven't used this load enough to know it's full potential. The reason I use a magnum primer is that most of my shooting is in 30 degree temperatures and the magnum primer gives the most consistent results. I don't use a magnum primer with IMR 4350 or IMR 4895. With a 165 grain bullet I would recommend IMR 4350. Another point to consider is recoil. For some reason IMR 4064 gives less felt recoil that IMR 4350 especially with a 150 grain bullet. When you first start loading for this rifle I would recommend IMR 4064 with a 150 grain bullet because it gives less felt recoil and you will really enjoy shooting the rifle. I have heard it said that "I love the stuff" and I feel that way about IMR 4064.
     
  17. dbro822

    dbro822 Member

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    That is a beauty! Love them old winchesters.
     
  18. CmdrSlander

    CmdrSlander Member

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    Madre de dios...
     
  19. highpower

    highpower Member

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    Updated with range pictures

    I managed to get to the range on Sunday and ran a few rounds through the model 70.

    The wind was blowing across the range from left to right at around 15mph with the occasional gust to 20mph. My first three shots (numbered 1~3) were working out the windage adjustments on the scope. Range was 100 yards.

    The next three shots were without further adjustments and the group came in at 1". I would have tried for a five shot group but I ran out of ammo. This was some ammo I loaded back in the early 90's using DCM purchased 165gr boattail match bullets and 45.6gr of IMR4895.

    Needless to say, I am stoked with the way this old rifle shoots.
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    I tried some 150 gr commercial ammo, but the groups opened up to 2" or so. Right now I am going to do some load development with some Sierra 168gr Matchkings and IMR4064 powder I managed to find.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
  20. NeuseRvrRat

    NeuseRvrRat Member

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    looks like you need to pull that ancient old scope off if you ever plan to kill anything ;)

    sweet rifle
     
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