Preferred .357 bullet seating and crimp dies

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Schwing

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I just switched from a Lee Pro1000 to a Dillon 650. Almost all of my dies are Lee and have been 100% to my satisfaction until now.

The Dillon tool head is a bit thicker. The Lee dies still work but they are barely long enough. In some cases, I have to put the locking collar on the bottom instead of the top. It is functional but it bothers me:(

To date, I have been using the seating/crimp die for .357 but want to seat and crimp separately on my heavier loads. These usually consist of 158 grain JSPs from Zero bullets with either 14.9 grains of 2400 or 17 grains of 300mp. My big issue seating and crimping with the same die on these is that, even though they have a cannelure it is pretty stiff so if the seating is not 100% complete before it starts to crimp, it crushes the case. The only way I have seen to prevent this is to back off on the crimp which I really don't want to do on these loads.

Like some, I have had horrible luck with the FCD and lead bullets. Having said that and leaving out a long story, I ended up with 2 of them for .357.

with that in mind, I would like to know the following:

1. Would you recommend for or against the FCD for jacked bullets in .357?

2. If I replace my bullet seating and/or crimp dies, what would you recommend? I am not opposed to spending the $ if something else is substantially better.
 
I always advise against the Lee FCD. Seems like a solution in search of a problem...

I'm having good results with the Dillon die as well as the Redding Profile Crimp die.
 
If I could afford (justify) it, I'd get a Redding Dual Ring Sizing die and their Micrometer Seating die...might as well add their Micrometer Crimp die also...and never have any doubt that I had the best dies available.

Since each of those dies would likely cost more than a complete set of Lee dies, only you can decide if it is worth the expense to you...but then you're already in the High Rent neighborhood with the Dillon press

if the seating is not 100% complete before it starts to crimp, it crushes the case.
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Couldn't you address that by lowering the seating stem to insure that seating was completed before starting to crimp?
 
I do not own any LFCD, learned how to set things up 4 decades ago so they are not needed. You can knock out the lower sizing die in the FCD. This will prevent you from sizing down the lead bullet.

I have a LNL-AP and like the Hornady dies. There sizing die has a large radius which aids in alignment. And there drop down bullet guide for the seater is very nice, gets your fingers clear.

Like you I always crimp as a separate step. If you are crushing some and not you should trim all your brass to the same length.

I like the Redding's competition bullet seating dies, but pricey.
 
«If I could afford (justify) it, I'd get a Redding Dual Ring Sizing die and their Micrometer Seating die...might as well add their Micrometer Crimp die also...and never have any doubt that I had the best dies available.»

That's the set that I use. OK not the cheapest, but it's a one time investment. They work great. Personally I don't care for Lee dies especially the rings. The micrometer seating die is especially useful when brass isn't exactly the same length, but I now trim .357's to lessen that variable.
 
I have had good luck with Lee dies for bullet seating. With the Lee turret I have grown to like the Redding profile and taper crimp dies. I taper all plated and like the way the profile die applies a roll crimp. For me using different dies for each purpose gets better results.
 
the seating is not 100% complete before it starts to crimp, it crushes the case.
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Open the inside diameter of the seating die with emery paper on a wood dowel. Dont go too deep and remove the crimp area. Forget the FCD. A crushed case is a sign of to much crimp.
 
I like Hornady New Dimension Seating dies. They have a sliding alignment sleeve that drops, along with the seating plug/stem, out the bottom of the die after you pull a spring clip. These are the only parts that contact the bullet, lube and cartridge case during seating, and you can clean them easily without affecting the seat and/or crimp settings. That's most valuable when loading lead bullets. Plus Hornady offers a micrometer seating depth adjuster that can be added to any New Dimension seating die.

For 357 mag and 45 colt, Lee offers a collet style crimp die. I have not tried it yet, but have tried their similar collet-type crimping die for bottleneck pistol cartridges, with good results.

The Hornady seating die does an admirable job of crimping while seating too, at least on roll-crimped cartridges.

Andy
 
I generally seat and crimp in two operations, but if in a hurry, I have my seat/crimp die set so I can do it in one operation, and just use the machined washer that came with the die set to raise the die above crimping length, when I want to seat only.

I use RCBS Carbide dies, and a Dillon taper crimp die, :)which also provides a roll crimp, according to Dillon. Or, I use my pistol seat/crimp dies, depending on what bullet.
I have the LFCD, which I don't remember using when I didn't overcrimp my reloads. when rarely, I get one or two rounds from a batch that won't pass the "plunk" test, I use it, and don't worry about the violence done to the cast bullet.

First: TRIM all your cases to the same length for consistency with the crimp.

An RCBS tech once told me that factory crimps are "overcrimping", which means that the pretty roll crimps we have all been looking at in the gunzines for decades may be Too Much! :what: Hmmmm, sez I.

I use the Dillon die for No-cannelure bullets, like Berry's plated, and set it to just move the flared case mouth against the bullet, keeping it light enough so It doesn't cut the plating. To help with this, I chamfer the interior of the case mouth lightly.

For cast bullets, I roll crimp the case mouth into the top of the cannelure, and move it so it's flush with the outside diameter of the bullet. No gap to gather dirt, and less chance of a hang-up when speed loading.

Jacketed bullets with cannelure, roll the crimp into the cannelure. Remington Golden sabers don't have a cannelure. They are a two-dimension bullet, so I roll the case mouth gently over the front of the larger(rear) diameter.
 
it crushes the case
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As said above. Trim length- If there is to much variation, this can cause problems if the crimp die is adjusted using the shortest case of the lot. The longest one may get crushed if using a maximum crimp.
 
I have a Redding Profile Crimp die, but it doesn't produce as nice a roll as the RCBS Cowboy combo die. The Cowboys anticipate lead bullet sizes and crimp well without damaging the brass or swaging bullets.

On the jacketed bullets, yes the Redding is superb, and having the separate die makes seating and case length less critical.

Personally, I would just trust the Dillon dies for your machine.
 
I am really slow getting back to this. I really do appreciate all of the responses.

There seems to be a lot of negative thoughts on the LFCD. I want to expound on this a bit and ask if there is any reason NOT to use it on jacketed bullets if it is NOT swagging them down. I have experienced the negatives with lead bullets but does it crimp adequately on jacketed bullets?

If I could afford (justify) it, I'd get a Redding Dual Ring Sizing die and their Micrometer Seating die...might as well add their Micrometer Crimp die also...and never have any doubt that I had the best dies available.
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I wish I had not looked at those:) While I am ok to spend some dough, those are a bit more than I had in mind.

Couldn't you address that by lowering the seating stem to insure that seating was completed before starting to crimp?
Click to expand...

Yes to a point. The problem I am facing is that I don't trim my brass and don't want too... I may have to revisit that but, on the longer cases, it tends to start crimping too soon. I know the fix... I just don't like it.

I have had good luck with Lee dies for bullet seating. With the Lee turret I have grown to like the Redding profile and taper crimp dies. I taper all plated and like the way the profile die applies a roll crimp. For me using different dies for each purpose gets better results.
Click to expand...

I am doing some research on these now. I have never seen these but it looks very much like what I am looking for!






First: TRIM all your cases to the same length for consistency with the crimp.

An RCBS tech once told me that factory crimps are "overcrimping", which means that the pretty roll crimps we have all been looking at in the gunzines for decades may be Too Much!
Click to expand...

I know I should trim. I am just hoping to avoid it. As far as overcrimping goes, all I know is that I lose accuracy if I lighten up on some of my loads.
 
I've used FCD with jacketed bullets and it's fine. I did remove the sizing ring from the FCD for dies used with lead.

The ONLY problem I've ever had with FCD is when loading lead bullets, where it can swage them.
 
Preferred .357 bullet seating and crimp dies.

While I don't know if I would say preferred I use a RCBS 3 Die Carbide set #18212 and have yet to run into a 38 Special or 357 Magnum I was unable to load and get a good crimp just using the die. I seat and crimp in a single step. Also have a set of old Pacific (Div of Hornady) 357 3 Die set that works just fine. Both sets get the same job done. If you want a nice crimp and uniform crimps then start with, as was mentioned, uniform length cases. Think about it and what is going on. If the cases aren't uniform in length the roll crimps won't be uniform.

I don't use the FCD simply because I have never had a need for it. I did fine before it came along and therefore never bothered with the FCD.

Ron
 
I use RCBS carbide dies.
It didnt take me long to realize; if you are roll crimping and you want them consistent, you must trim your cases.
If you want "barely there" crimp on some, and crushed cases on others...dont trim!

Its not like rifle where you'd better check your lengths every time...You only have to trim once, so far as I can tell
 
1. Would you recommend for or against the FCD for jacked bullets in .357?
Click to expand...

The Lee FCD works very well on jacketed diameters, which could be lead. I just got in some .357 SWC from Xtreme to use on tight guns.

2. If I replace my bullet seating and/or crimp dies, what would you recommend? I am not opposed to spending the $ if something else is substantially better.
Click to expand...

The crimp timing problem doesn't go away. To use the degree of crimp you want you will need separate dies, which might as well be Dillons.
 
He'll still have problems with long cases and a hard crimp if he doesn't trim the cases, whether he seats and crimps together or separately. May not be as bad, but it won't cure the issue like trimming will.
 
If the mentality is to trim handgun cases, then maybe the single stage is the right platform for the perfectionist. Personally, I could see maybe trimming one case to standard and then setting crimp for that length. Variation in case length is inherent in reloading fired cases, and I have never read where many people routinely trim handgun brass. I understand that the context is heavy roll crimp in revolver bullets with crimp grooves, but it all begs the question of how much case length variance is still okay.
 
I trim all revolver brass so I will get uniform crimps, even though some loads get little or even no crimp. Some people never trim revolver brass and accept the differences in crimp from short to long cases. They adjust the crimp so that even the longest cases don't cause an issue. It's a preference thing.

So, if the OP doesn't want to trim cases on loads that will need a firm to heavy crimp he will need to either sort cases by length, or adjust the crimp using the longer cases. And hope the short cases with less crimp into the cannelure or crimp groove don't have a problem with creeping out of the cases under recoil.
 
schwing,

you said you want to start seating and crimping in separate steps. so, get another (not fcd) seating die and do it. you don't need to trim cases if you crimp separately. i've been doing it for years for my 357 mag and heavy 45lc loads. fold that case mouth all the way to the bottom of the crimp groove and carry on.

murf
 
you said you want to start seating and crimping in separate steps. so, get another (not fcd) seating die and do it. you don't need to trim cases if you crimp separately. i've been doing it for years for my 357 mag and heavy 45lc loads. fold that case mouth all the way to the bottom of the crimp groove and carry on.
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His Lee die set already includes a combo seat/crimp die (the seater will also crimp) and a separate crimp die, both very good for his jacketed bullet diameters. I never use them for lead, because they are too precise and don't do well on larger diameter bullets.
 
yes, i have had problems with the lee seat/crimp die and .432" diameter lead bullets. in that case the die swages down the bullet a couple of thou. i had to switch to another brand of seater die to seat those bullets without swaging the bullet, or crushing the case.

if that is the case, in this case, i would get a different brand of seating die.

murf
 
I do not own any LFCD, learned how to set things up 4 decades ago so they are not needed
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Yessir! I had one for a while, just outta curiosity, and it ruined some carefully sized and seated .44 caliber lead bullets, so it now resided in a landfill somewhere in Southern Oregon...

My favorite crimp die for revolvers is Redding's Profile crimp dies. I seat and crimp in two steps so the Profile crimp is perfect. For semi auto reloads I use a plain old taper crimp die to just remove any flare...
 
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