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Preloaded spare cylinders...thoughts?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by DMShag514, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    There’s also an episode of Bonanzas in which Little Joe does the same with his 1851 Navy. He was darn quick about it too. Still, John Moses Browning came up with a better plan.
     
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  2. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    It's interesting to me when I see Hollyweed go to that length to get it right
     
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  3. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    Sorry Junior, it's pure hokum, like I said in my last post. Hollywood has used this several times because it made an interesting plot twist.
    But, as far as we know, almost nobody ever actually bothered.
    Of course, it you can provide some actual historical references to prove that the practice was common-place, I am sure that we would be happy to see them.
     
  4. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Thanks for your input
     
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  5. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    The advantage would be that in a Remington revolver it would permit a quick reload.
    The disadvantage would be that carrying a capped cylinder around would be unsafe.
    If you dropped it, contact with gravel could easily detonate a cap, firing off that chamber.
    That could mean a bullet in your leg or your crown jewels or someone else being wounded.
    If you carried it uncapped, the capping process would be too slow to make it much of an advantage.
     
  6. drobs

    drobs Member

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    The same repriming powder used to make caps can be used on primers. Cartridges can be loaded with black powder even for use in semi-auto. A Lee Loader will fit in your backpack. Taken out of it's box, it will fit in your pocket.

    https://leeprecision.com/classic-lee-loader/
     
  7. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    There was a test conducted firing off a chamber loaded with 30 grns of 3F Goex with a ball and it produced 7 ft/lbs of energy and was figured to do no more than leave a bruise. Still not something cool to have happen.
     
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  8. Fingers McGee

    Fingers McGee Member

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    In my not so humble opinion, spare cylinders are fine when displayed in a high quality cased set. Otherwise, they are a complete waste of time, money and resources. At some point, they have to be reloaded and cleaned.

    The "Pale Rider" reload is pure HOLLYWOOD ! With no basis in fact.
     
  9. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    Regardless, you wouldn't want it to hit your crown jewels. :eek:
     
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  10. Old Stumpy

    Old Stumpy Member

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    It could be argued that any firearm not used for a purely practical purpose such as hunting, self-defense, military, law enforcement, or formal target or action pistol shooting is a complete waste of time, money and resources.
    However, the vast majority of people here would disagree.
    Gun owners are not, as a rule, purely practical people. It's a hobby.
    So, if someone wishes to own a half dozen spare cylinders for whatever reason, why not?
    They certainly are cheap enough for the Italian replicas.
     
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  11. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    I’ve seen a video in which a fellow shoots and changes several cylinders (dropping them to the ground, which I wouldn’t want to do unless it really needing being done, but...) quite quickly, and I’d think faster than the speed loaders for a revolver. Maybe not what I have in mind, but shows something I suppose.

    And a ball, or in my case a bullet with a bit more oomph, would not be welcomed down below or anywhere else!
     
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  12. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    While I agree with those who've pointed out that irregular soldiers in guerrilla units used multiple revolvers to achieve firepower, and even most armed people at the time outside war, who carried and used percussion revolvers, might carry more than one if they believed extra firepower was useful, I'm not certain we can really tell from historical records that spare cylinder reloads was solely hollywood.

    If it happened I think it was likely very rare and might not have been thought notable for those keeping recods. Those records might have been lost -- if they ever did exist. Even the most thorough history books present a bare skeleton view of what happened.

    How much of what you do each day is historically notable?
    For me, not much (Ouch! My poor ego!!!):neener: However many gun owners who did write about their gun use, would they note particular details? Apparently no one here has come across records of anyone changing out cylinders in any historical records

    Also consider guns were expensive. How many could afford or wish to invest in extra cylinders, which might require hand fitting?

    I'm saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
    Don't get me wrong.....I'm certainly not saying it was commonplace. I think we've covered that.

    But .... it might still have happened ... we'll just never really know, without the evidence.
     
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  13. damoc

    damoc Member

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    This was an experiment to see what may have been possible cylinders were dropped onto a mattress not seen in the video.
     
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  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Then there was the story (Hemingway?) of the Continental hunter who was ready for a game drive, with plenty of pinfire shells in his cartridge belt. All was well until he slipped and rolled down the hill.
     
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  15. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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    That's my lube and Treso nipples and Remington # 10s . I don't have misfires or chain fires either.
     
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  16. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    I've seen a few sources that state Rangers used spare cylinders during the Battle of Walker's Creek.
     
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  17. AJumbo

    AJumbo Member

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    Help me understand something- a .36 or .44 caliber ball pushed by 30 gr of powder will only produce 7 ft/lbs of energy? Do you mean from an unsupported cylinder, i.e., not on the gun? I still don't know how anyone would arrive at that figure.
     
  18. ofitg

    ofitg Member

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
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  19. AJumbo

    AJumbo Member

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    Thank you, sir. Wish the page was available, it seems like an interesting experiment. Has anyone fired their Avenging Angel over a chrono? I wonder how much velocity gets lost due to the vestigial barrel.

    I would carry a loaded, uncapped spare cylinder if I thought a reload would be handy and if I moisture wouldn't be a problem. Capping takes a fraction of the time that loading does, and if I'm in the field, I'd be loading on the gun without benefit of my loading stand. Dropping a capped cylinder looks like a fine way to invite Murphy into your life.
     
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  20. damoc

    damoc Member

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    I did a chrono on a vest pocket derringer with a 2 inch barrel got velocities up to about 630 fps. I bet if you loaded with minimal powder with ball right over the powder you could get more velocity out of a cylinder than fully loading it normally.Ill try that when the snow melts and I can get up to my place again. Also 7 foot pounds is nothing to sneeze at that is about the same I got from a "hunting" slingshot with the same ammo.It may not penetrate but will totally mess up any soft spot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
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  21. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    These guys used an 1860 Army and used a fuse to ignite a chamber along the side and used a chronograph to get the velocity. It showed to produce just 7 ft/lbs of energy.

    I tried Googling it but I’m not sure what to look for. Anyone know what I’m talking about and can post a link?

    *EDIT*

    I see that was done.
     
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  22. Michiganmuzzy

    Michiganmuzzy Member

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    I use spare cylinders in my ROA. I have ordered a base pin from these guys that lets you leave off the 3 piece loading lever and if you mod the latch pin properly it only takes a couple seconds to swap cylinders.
    https://beltmountain.com/base-pins/
    Look on the ROA thread pg33 for a mod to the latch pin.
     
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  23. Ugly Old Guy

    Ugly Old Guy Member

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    I thought Ol' Ben and his boys carried and used a SSA along with a Winchester '73 levergun. (or maybe they had a '94, like 'The Rifleman' did?)
    I remember the Cartwright's putting metallic cartridges in their revolvers, on the rare occasions they missed a lot, and had to reload.
    Seems like they got a lot more than five or six shots off before they had to reload, too.
    I don't recall ever seeing a open top revolver or a ML on Bonanza.

    I remember watching a movie about the Alamo, back in the late 1970's.
    The defenders were using bolt action repeating rifles, not a flintlock that had to be reloaded after each shot.
    Hollywood rarely gets the arms and/or tactics correct.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  24. Ugly Old Guy

    Ugly Old Guy Member

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    And a supply of "Cowboy Action" cartridges loaded with black powder. (or load your own with black powder).
    A Conversion cylinder does not make it safe to use modern smokeless powder cartridges in a BP frame.
     
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  25. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Ive carried preloaded cylinders...and i did notice that sometimes fine dust and a few grains of black powder would spill out of the nipple end...that is i believe only because the cylinders were kept rattling around in a plastic tupperwear box in the back of the truck while bouncing down dirt roads. You can always buy these nipple caps (looks like them plastic red toy roll caps you use in toy cap guns)from RMC to keep the powder safe and anything from entering/spilling from the nipple end. Especially helps seal it from moisture. I dont need them or even worry anymore about spillage or contamination etc due to using a paper cartridge that doesnt break in the cylinder so no grains spill out into the chamber. A thin red rice paper seals the chamber off from the nipples flash hole...so nothing gets through without peircing the paper such as a nipple pick, needle, or force from a percussion caps blast. Moisture doesnt get through either as i usually smear a thin coating of Duco nitrocellulose glue over the rice paper...so its moisture proof but also combustible so it wont keep the percussion cap blast from doing its job. Hard to explain so ill show a pic..
    These are empty cartridges
    20191126_134346.jpg 20191126_134419.jpg
    Next are complete cartridges and how they are used..
    20191126_134913.jpg 20191126_135227.jpg
     
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