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Prescription Glasses Folks

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Good Ol' Boy, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Dont know why in the world this hadn't occurred to me before but I got to thinking today about us guys that cant see that great without glasses and shooting without them.

    Obviously in a SD situation anything's possible and it seems reasonable to think you may have to use your firearm without the aid of prescription glasses (within reason assuming you're not completely blind w/o your glasses).

    Not sure what the appropriate "training" or drills would be. I do a fair amount of point shooting anyways, I think I may really start putting it to the test.


    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Have spares? There's not a great workaround to not being able to see. Point shooting? Great- can you tell what you're shooting at? My eyes are objectively terrible, almost 5 cylinder power of correction in my glasses, yet I can still see the sights well enough to shoot at close ranges (like the range from my bed to my front door). The worse your eyesight the more pairs of glasses you should probably own.

    Of course, Lasik or PK surgery could be an option for some.
     
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  3. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    I was thinking more like having to defend yourself out in public where your not next to your bedroom dresser where your "spares" are.

    Even if you carried spares on your person that doesnt seem realistic to rely on being able to access them in the middle of a SD situation.

    Really though, I dont think it realistic to rely on spares even in your home.

    Again, I'm not talking about those folks that are "bat you know what blind". I really dont know what to offer for those folks.
     
  4. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Since I work in the business, I do practice without my glasses occasionally, and also while closing one eye or the other. (Pistol. I can switch shoulders as well as eyes with long guns.)
    My Rx is @ -6.00 D of myopia correction and -2.00 D of astigmatism correction, close to blind as a bat. With a scoped or red dot long arm, there is no detriment, as the scope is 3" from my eye, within my Near vision focus. With a non-scoped long arm,or a pistol , it doesn't degrade my accuracy until 10 yards for pistol, and @ 25 for long arms. Of course, a shotgun has a little more leeway on accuracy. I cannot hit a flying clay at 16 from the yard line without my glasses.
    I do carry a spare pair of glasses in my truck, as well as my trapshooting glasses in my range bag.2 sets in my room, though not the quickest access.
    I could shoot my M16A1 'good enough' to hit the qual silhouettes at 25 yards without the glasses insert in my M17 mask. 50 yards it dropped to less than half.
     
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  5. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    My eyes are fine, so I don’t speak from personal experience, but a co-worker found that mounting a red dot on his pistol helped a lot since he could focus on the target while wearing his glasses and then put the dot on the target without having to focus on the front sight. It may be an option.

    ETA: apologies, I misread the post. I have no advice for shooting with impaired vision while not wearing glasses.
     
  6. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I doubt there really is a good workaround aside from having spares, wearing durable glasses w/bungees-croakies or getting surgery. Point shooting still requires one to see what one is pointing out. Short of that I suppose working at very close range?
     
  7. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    I find that my prescription glasses I use for driving also do well for my long distant shooting of targets and just walking all around can see better. I also use them for shooting my handguns at various distances of from 5 to 25 yards and work well. It's when I have to read or clean the gun that I only have to change to my other prescription glasses for close up distances. I truly never thought about doing drills. The range I frequent does not really allow rapid firing and once in a while I go to a different range that only has metal targets and trees and that is where I practice a little rapid firing. I suck at the rapid firing.
     
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  8. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I guess my main workaround is wearing contacts. In a few decades of wearing them I've only lost one in normal activity maybe once or twice. The disposable ones are almost foolproof although super dusty conditions can cause irritation. They're much better for peripheral vision, they correct my astigmatism in one eye and aren't apt to bounce around, fog up or break. They're what is must be like to be born with good vision.:rofl:
     
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  9. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I have several vision issues. I tried practicing with corrective lenses and either way (distance glasses or reading glasses) it was a disaster. The reading glasses get rid of the vertical double vision of the front sight but I can't see the target well enough, the distance glasses mean I can't line up the sights. Not to mention the safety overlenses get all fogged up. Bottom line, I am happier shooting without corrective lenses.

    I solved the vertical double vision piece by figuring out that in my case I have to use the image that looks like it's not the real one. (The lower image is stronger, the upper one is fainter, so I thought the lower one is the one to use, but my shots were all hitting low.) BTW in case anybody is wondering, a person can have vertical double vision with only one eye open if they have severe astigmatism.

    All the foregoing applies to handguns. I recently got my first AR and don't yet have enough experience with it to know how it's going to work.
     
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  10. drband

    drband Member

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    I can see well enough at distance to identify targets with no problem... it's the close up stuff (sights) that I have issues with, so I use safety glasses with reading correction in the bottom and top corner. No correction in the middle. I basically just shoot looking through the middle when I want to practice without correction. Precision shots on target are more difficult that way, but COM hits on a target are really not affected very much. I use the reader correction in the top corner for more precise shooting.
     
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  11. tdbmd

    tdbmd Member

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    I have started adding CT lasers to my carry firearms as a secondary/back-up sighting method. I have found that I can see the red or green laser dot without my glasses.
     
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  12. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    I wear glasses with *substantial* correction, but have shot all my defense guns at the range without glasses to verify that yes, I can still shoot effectively without them. Even if the sights are too blurry for a conventional sight picture, you can still align the blurs, or if you can’t see the sights at all, align the silhouette of the gun as seen from the rear, or (if a long gun w/optic), center the fuzzy blur of the optic with the target. (I’ve also shot my red dots without batteries, using the optic housing, as a big ghost-ring sight, which is still surprisingly accurate at defensive distances.)

    If your in corrected vision is poor, target identification will be more of a concern than shooting accurately enough, IMO. The help for that is a good, bright light; for both optical and biological reasons, out-of-focus eyes are less handicapped when seeing a bright scene than a dim one.
     
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  13. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    CT laser are a great option as well. I mounted one on a 642 when I realized how much of a lousy shot I was with this pistol at close range. Normally I don't use lasers but there was a time that I had to use it for over 6 months when I was laid up in bed from surgery. Had there ever been a home invasion during this time I would not have been able to get up quickly enough to respond. With the laser, it allowed me to shoot lying down.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  14. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    I shoot with corrective vision eye wear and with out as part of my routine firing sequences/exercises. I thought it to to be a common sense standard.
     
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  15. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Wow, thank you for posting that -- I would never have thought of it, but it makes sense, as long as what you want to hit is inside the ring you would probably be fine. :)

    Meanwhile I started working with my new AR. So much time had elapsed since my original lesson and one range visit (largely due to the arrival of coronavirus in the US, but with all the discombobulation I didn't even buy the gun until recently) that my body didn't remember the right stance. I've been practicing in my house, first just trying to get on target and then trying to get on target right away when raising the gun, which is now thankfully going fairly well. Next added dry-firing with the dime exercise (put a dime on the flash hider, shoulder the gun, pull the trigger, goal is for the dime not to fall off), happily no problems with that. With advice from a knowledgeable friend I decided it's better to first cement the muscle memory shouldering it on the right, before trying to learn how to do it on the left.

    The very good news on the vision issue is that after concentrating on looking at the target instead of the sight, I can now see the red dot with both eyes open, when I had tried it at my lesson I was seeing two red dots and ended up using the red dot sight like a regular sight, i.e. with just my right eye open.

    Now I need to get to the range to try actually shooting but being in the highest COVID risk group I'm not going to my normal indoor range, and temperatures here are currently running 110-117, so the trick will be to get to the outdoor range very early in the morning when it's only 90-something.

    However, the red dot sight I bought (Holosun HS403c) seems only to work in bright light. Supposedly it runs on "solar" (ambient light) and automatically switches to battery if ambient light is insufficient, or you can force it to use the battery by holding the plus button down for 3 seconds, but for me it does not work unless in fairly bright light. I bought the AR for home defense -- my house is sufficiently hardened that I will have time to get into position to be ready to fire if wannabe breakers-in start succeeding, so my plan was to direct light to where they would be coming in while myself remaining behind cover in semi-darkness, but so far I cannot get this sight to do that. I even tested by standing right next to the relevant light switch, aiming with the light on, see the red light, turn off the light switch without moving the gun, red dot disappears. IF ANYONE HERE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SIGHT OR OTHERWISE KNOWS HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ADVICE. Otherwise I guess for my intended purpose I wasted my money on this sight and have to get something different. I am not willing to make myself easier for BGs to see.

    Separately, when I get up to learning to shoot off the left shoulder I will report back as to how that goes WRT the vision issue -- my central vision is worse in the left eye than the right one, so even though I will have both eyes open the left one will be the one looking through the sight, so I'm a little apprehensive about that aspect of it. (When I shoot my revolvers left-handed I use my right eye.)

    edited to correct three minutes to three seconds, sorry!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  16. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I have done some shooting practice where I do "minute of blur" accuracy without my glasses. Pretty hard to practice when the range requires eye protection.

    The 403C does not have an auto brightness or solar feature. If you meant the 507c, I have the same optic on my EDC and it sounds like yours might be defective.
    https://holosun.ca/images/HOLOSUN/General/HS403G.pdf
     
  17. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Lots of geezers find it harder to see at book reading distances but beyond that things get better. So I suppose it depends on the impairment.


    Some folks that practice point shooting are pretty impressive.

     
  18. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    ? If you just wear plain safety glasses...

    You linked the 403G.
    Here is the 403c:
    holosun HS403c.png
     
  19. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Very nice! :)
     
  20. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    For my 2¢ the critical thing is whether you can identify the intended target.
    A person can train up enough "muscle memory" to have decent sight alignment--but, that's of little help if the target (and what's behind it) are unrecognizable.

    After cataract surgery, I just about cannot thread a needle (other than a sailcloth needle). My distance and middle vision are good, though, if better with astigmatism correction.

    Frankly, I don't know how i would cope if my middle vision were like trying to read a text on my phone with out glasses (a hopeless blur). This bears some further consideration on my part.

    Yeah, the 403c is great outdoors (mostly) but, it responds to UV emitted from indoor lighting (like the pigtail CFL lamps). Which is very annoying. But, the "ghost ring" thing will "fill in" with enough practice.

    The thing were it autocorrects is why I went with the 503g (that, and I'm used to the chevron reticule from ACOG use).
    The contrast between deep shadows and full sun found in AZ are a vexation for "simple answers" to this.
     
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  21. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I bought this sight because it's what was on the rental one I had shot at my indoor range, where it was fine, and in view of being in the highest risk group for coronavirus I was not going to go around to a bunch of different gun stores trying out other ones.

    I bought the AR to be my home defense weapon. I have invested enough in hardening my house that I will be able to get to a suitable position before any wannabe intruders can actually break in. My plan is to organize lighting so it's shining on where they would try to come in (there are only two credible scenarios for this and I can have the lighting set up for both), while I remain in a dimmer area behind cover (bookcases), and be ready to fire if they start to succeed. So far this sight does not seem like it's going to work for this plan. I actually tested standing by the light switch, aiming with the light over me on I can see the red dot fine, flipping the switch without moving the gun the red dot disappears.

    I would love there to be a way to get this one to do what I need, but if not I'm gonna have to get something else. No way am I gonna enhance my targetability by lighting myself up.

    What is this "ghost ring" thing you mentioned?

    You mentioned outdoor use, right now I am going to be using an outdoor range (again because of coronavirus), and I guess if just for my own amusement I decide I want to try shooting longer distances I would continue using the outdoor range for that purpose once the plague finishes, but as noted above, this gun is for home defense, i.e. indoor use.
     
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  22. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Like Entropy, I am very near-sighted (-7.5) but with less astigmatism. Standard column newsprint can't be read w/o glasses beyond about 6", but I can't focus on it with glasses so I read it without glasses. During the day and around the house, I wear an older, weaker pair of glasses, saving my good glasses for driving. Even without glasses, I can see shapes and colors (if big enough) in decent light. One good thing is that, with all the pre-dawn squirrel hunting I have done, moving quietly in nearly total darkness in my house isn't a problem.
    It's actully kind of funny in the numerous times I have laid my glasses down and walked off in the house to put laundry or groceries away (have you tried to read those "best by" dates?) and then had to hunt the glasses up. o_O :D
     
  23. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    I've seen that vid and to not get too off topic hopefully, that's generally referred to as "shooting from the hip". Not IMHO at all the same as point shooting. In fact in the game world (USPSA/IDPA) we call that shooting from retention. Nonetheless it is an impressive display of ability.

    I'm sure there are many interpretations of "point shooting" but mine is simply getting the gun up to chest/head level and focusing on the target. You're not even remotely concerned with sights. Its the old adage of pointing at something with your finger. It certainly has its limitations and for me its basically 10yds and in.

    Being able to identify your target and whats behind or around it is certainly need to know info. And ones particular vision deficit kind of determins what one is capable of.

    Anyway I'm glad this thread has remained civil and seems to be informative for some folks, it definitely has been for me.

    Let's keep it going.
     
  24. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    That’s what I was going with as a definition. Shooting without using them realizing accuracy through repetition of performing a task vs using sights.

    The late Bob Munden wasn’t too shabby either.

     
  25. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Yep, just center the target in the field of view, and you’ll get a nice hand-sized group at inside-the-home distances. The first time I tried that, it was because my optic battery went dead at the range and I hadn’t brought a spare with me (learning experience!) but then I realized it’s something I should be practicing anyway.

    OLNS, is the light sensor inside the optic, or is it on top? If the latter, if covering it with your finger makes the dot brighter, you could tape a little piece of tinted film over the sensor to make the optic think it’s darker. You might have to remove it when shooting outdoors in the daytime if it’s co-located with the fiber optic pickup, though (I’m speculating here because I have no experience with that particular optic).

    I did something similar with the annoying “auto-dimming” mirror in the Acura I used to have; it had a light sensor that would prevent the mirror from dimming during daylight, which was exceedingly annoying whenever I got an idiot on my bumper with high-beam daytime running lights at mirror height. So I stuffed a balled-up Kleenex tightly in the sensor so that the mirror always thought it was dark...worked perfectly.
     
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