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President Trump weighs in on 3D printed Ghost Guns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Aim1, Jul 31, 2018.

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  1. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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    Good to know he consulted the NRA.


    Dana Loesch made good points in the article.



    https://nypost.com/2018/07/31/trump-says-3-d-printed-guns-dont-make-much-sense/



     
  2. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Doesn't matter what we (or Trump) thinks about 3-D printed guns, good, bad, or indifferent. They are out there and there is nearly nothing the government can do to stop the creation and sharing of the data needed to create 3-D printed parts (gun parts or otherwise). The CAD programs used to create the part files is cheap and even free.

    The technology is only going to get better and more accessible from this point forward. The plastic printers use to be expensive now they are cheap. The are also getting better print quality with better materials and you can order it form Amazon Prime. The metal printers are getting cheaper, smaller and more capable too. It is conceivable in the near future they will be as accessible as a hobby class CNC milling machine.

    Can't stop the signal...
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
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  3. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Would it create a brouha-ha if I were to publish an article reporting how French Fifth Columnists were building Sten submachine guns in bicycle shops during WW2 ---under the noses of their Nazi overlords?
    And that a lot of people out in flyover country can make serviceable firearms in their basement machine shops today?



    I mean, I wouldn't want to get any of these politicians all riled up or anythin'. :neener:
     
  4. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    Someone needs to release a download for 3D printable bump stock.
    That’d get interesting.

    I never have, and still don’t trust Trump on guns, comments like that don’t help.
     
  5. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    I am awaiting his first actual pro-gun move.
     
  6. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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    Update: Complete 180'.



    https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/31/politics/trump-3-d-printed-guns/index.html



     
  7. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    It looks to me like the problem sighting that law is that you can print an AR receiver, that would not be an entirely plastic gun and many people will still have a problem with that.

    It’ll be interesting to see how this will turn out, and how many people here are fine with it since Trump is supportive.
     
  8. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    In my opinion, this whole 3-D printing thing is "much ado about nothing." If you want to skirt gun regulations, the "80% receiver" route is much easier and cheaper. As a distraction, though, 3-D printing serves a purpose. It keeps the antigunners chasing shadows, expending their energy on things other than core issues such as AW bans, magazine bans, and carrying outside the home.
     
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  9. mcb

    mcb Member

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    IMHO 3-D printed guns is more about what is and isn't free speech ie 1A issues and keeping the internet a place open to the free exchange of information and ideas and far less to do with 2A issues. Making a gun yourself using additive manufacturing processes is no different, legally, than manufacturing a gun with traditional subtraction machining processes. Both require the same simple legal hoops to be jumped through. Both are getting increasingly more accessible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  10. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    Because if it wasn't Trump we would have had a raging pro gunner in the she devil?

    Trump has consistently held back the assault on gun owners every time there is a shooting, points out any time a good guy used a gun, and he has place supreme court justices that are consistent with the 2nd ammendment, fully supports the nra, and is not currently pushing for a weapons ban. I wonder what the other side would have had in place by now.

    Sooooo.....let's give him a break maybe?
     
  11. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    I disagree, at this point the main argument is that the download shouldn’t be available to be distributed. That’s the equivalent (imo) to saying M16 or AK-47 blueprints shouldn’t be legal. And anytime information is being suppressed by law, I view it as a 1st amendment issue...

    Now saying you can’t USE that information is where the 2nd amendment conflict comes in. This issue is (again, imo) very much a first and second amendment issue.



    And Yo Mama, I intentionally try to not give breaks. If some one does wrong I’m definitely subject to call attention to it. Likewise If they do right, I’ll give them credit. If they say they’re going to do something and then nothing happens....that’s not my fault, and I want pretend it’s ok to say your pro gun then in action be irrelevant at best.... in short, no I want give him a break.
     
  12. CLP

    CLP Member

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    Regarding as to whether or not the files "should" be available for download- of course they should be. It's a 1st amendment issue. How can they justify banning the file distribution but allow books on suppressors and full auto conversions? How can books instructing one on how to build a rifle from the ground up be legal but not these? How can instructions on how to mill out an 80% lower be legal but not these files?
    I think many people on both sides of the gun debate fail to understand the significance of file distribution in general and how it's going to affect the gun laws (for better or worse). The efforts to stop the file distribution are tantamount to sticking a finger in the hole of an otherwise crumbling dike. The only way to prevent people from printing their own receivers is to ban the personal manufacture of firearms, and even then it will only dissuade those who obey the law. I used to think AR prices couldn't get any lower- I'm not so sure any more. I'm not saying their quality will be improved, but the commercial implications are very clear. And 3D printing technology is still in its infancy and it's not going to take a generation for the technology to improve rapidly. Significant progress will be made in a matter of just a few years. The plans for the AR lower have been available for years and they're still available at the time of this writing on Usenet and P2P platforms. They can't stop the underground distribution, just the legitimate distribution.
    Trump says what he thinks his audience wants to hear. He may be an outsider but he's no different than the other swamp critters.
     
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  13. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    Like it or not, the manufacture of "undetectable" guns has been settled law since 1988. Nothing in that law, however, would preclude you from 3d printing a firearm so long as you are in compliance with that law, e.g. by including some metallic content in order to make the thing able to be picked up by a metal detector.

    Pointing out that there is already existing law that addresses the hystrionics over these things is hardly an anti-gun move. Under the circumstances, it's obviously the most prudent thing to do.
     
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  14. CLP

    CLP Member

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    This doesn't have anything to do with firearms not being detectable by X-ray or other screening machines. That argument is a red herring. When Glocks came on the scene it was the same argument. The real issue (for the gov't and gun control crowd) with Glocks was that a polymer (ie inexpensive) pistol with "high capacity" mags was going to change the landscape of handgun ownership. 7-10 rd mags and six shooters were no longer the standard.
    The issue here isn't "undetectable" firearms. We all know that's a joke (at least with where 3D printing technology is currently.
    The real issue is that firearms will soon be much more prevalent- whether you buy them or make them yourself- and the government will have even less grip on who owns firearms and what they're doing with them.
    I wouldn't be surprised if legislation was introduced that criminalized manufacturing firearms without licensure and/or the serializing of specific gun parts (barrels, upper rec's, etc)
     
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  15. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    Of course that's the ultimate goal, but by pointing out the Undetectable Firearms Act already satisfies the cries of the grabbers not only makes them look stupid, it also forces them to be honest about their intentions.

    This has already happened in California. You can no longer build a firearm from an 80% receiver without first submitting a serial number to the state and passing a background check.
     
  16. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    I agree, but I honestly don’t see the relevance. No gun (to my knowledge) is completely undetectable, even the plastic single shot “liberator” has to have a metal firing pin as I understand it. I suppose they could say that’s not detectable enough, and that’s be a legitimate argument to be honest.

    I guess you have to know what is defined as “undetectable” as defined in the 88 law.
     
  17. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    "The lawsuit also argues the settlement violates the Tenth Amendment by infringing on states' rights to regulate firearms. Washington has a robust regulatory system meant to keep firearms out of the hands of dangerous individuals. That system is jeopardized by the Trump Administration's action and will be undermined by the distribution of Defense Distributed's downloadable guns."
    How have state and federal regulations affected sources of firearms to dangerous individuals over time? I do not think their scheme is very robust, unless the goal is to increase gray and black market sources of weapons for criminals.
    Code:
    Bureau of Justice Statistics 
    Firearms Use by Offenders 
    (survey of prison inmates who carried or used a firearm in their last offense)
    Source of firearm          1991 - 1997 - 2004
    Retail Purchase or trade   20.8%  14.0%  11.3%
    - Retail store             14.7    8.2    7.3
    - Pawnshop                  4.2    4.0    2.6
    - Flea market               1.3    1.0    0.6
    - Gun show                  0.6    0.8    0.8
    Family or friend           33.8%  40.1%  37.4%
    - Purchased or traded      13.5   12.6   12.2
    - Rented or borrowed       10.1   18.9   14.1
    - Other                    10.2    8.5   11.1
    Street/illegal source      40.8%  37.3%  40.0%
    - Theft or burglary        10.5    9.1    7.5
    - Drug dealer/off street   22.5   20.3   25.2
    - Fence/black market        7.8    8.0    7.4
    Other                       4.6%   8.7%   11.2%
    
    My notes:
    Retail purchase for criminal use often involves a straw purchaser - someone with a clean record buying the gun for the criminal.
    As Wright & Rossi pointed out in the first "Armed & Considered Dangerous" prison inmate survey, family or friend supplying guns to criminals are often criminals themselves.
     
  18. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    curious what's in the other category that went from 4.6 to 8.7 to 11.2
     
  19. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    As of August 1, 2018, the United States Senate has confirmed 51 Article III judges nominated by President Trump, including;

    1 Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States,

    24 judges for the United States Courts of Appeals,

    26 judges for the United States District Courts.

    There are currently 86 nominations to Article III courts awaiting Senate action, including 1 for the Supreme Court, 10 for the Courts of Appeals, 73 for the District Courts, and 2 for the Court of International Trade.

    There is currently one vacancy on the Supreme Court, 12 vacancies on the U.S. Courts of Appeals, 125 vacancies on the U.S. District Courts, 2 vacancies on the U.S. Court of International Trade, and 30 announced federal judicial vacancies that will occur before the end of Trump's first term (8 for the Courts of Appeals and 22 for District Courts).

    My question to you is what Pro-Gun laws has the Republican Party controlled Congress passed since Trump has become President? Why hasn't the Senate confirmed all of President Trumps nominations?

    Federal Courts are where gun laws are being tested and with it the 2nd Amendment. If you do not understand the importance of having Pro-Gun Judges appointed to Federal Courts then you do not understand where the real battle is.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Donald_Trump
     
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  20. 340PD

    340PD Member

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  21. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    To use with lead bullets coated in plastic...
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  22. Yujun

    Yujun Member

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    These are the guys who are building their own firearms in their back yard. The fact that the trend is rising is what the antis will latch onto to ramp up hysteria about 3-D printed guns as it will make it even easier to build a gun. Yes it's more expensive, but some criminals who have money may have more confidence in a machine than their own manual labor skills.

    It could also be criminals mail-ordering black powder firearms. I recall a story two years ago where a felon in Maryland used a black powder revolving pistol to murder his ex-girlfriend since he couldn't get a "real" pistol. Even shot her twice with it for good measure.

    https://www.inquisitr.com/3022435/d...ath-of-girlfriend-seeks-to-recant-plea-claim/
     
  23. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

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    I was 12 when I made my first zip gun out of a big bolt that I bored a hole through and sawed in two. It used caps from my cap gun over gun powder we harvested from fire crackers. A simple nail with rubber bands taped around the head of the nail was the firing pin. It would have been a heck of a lot easier if I had access to real ammunition like .22lr shells.

    Guns just aren't that difficult to make! Here is a whole gallery of guys that are much more inventive than I am:
    https://imgur.com/gallery/RaKRo

    Whether the guns come off a 3D printer of off some kids drill press I don't see that much difference. This is just the liberal left making a big deal out of something they don't understand. Better they make a ruckus over printed guns to keep their constituents happy than stupid gun control laws about real weapons which they understand nothing about. It is all about the politicians wanting to seem like they are doing something... to keep their constituents happy.

    Let's all make a huge fuss over printed guns and get bent all out of shape... so the politicians can pretend like they are doing something for the safety of the American people!

    Darn those politicians, Trying to attack my gun rights again! Let's start a petition and send it to them!
     
  24. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    Little League Fundraiser Raffle winners.
     
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