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Pressure Signs

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by LKLive13, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. LKLive13

    LKLive13 Member

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    I recently bought 1k Remington 6 1/2 primers for $7 and decided to load them in an relatively light .223 bolt action load. This is the result to those primers. I know they are not “supposed” to be loaded for the 223 but my question is how bad is this type of pressure sign on the rifle bolt itself? The primer didn’t give away and there was no gas escape signs around the primer. Just thought I would poll the people here and see what you all think. Sorry for poor pic quality, I can try to get a better pic if this one doesn’t work.
    BC27C00C-1D13-4EAA-8B51-D8C9C0511B45.jpeg
     

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  2. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    As long as extraction wasn't sticky, I wouldn't be loseing any sleep over it.
     
  3. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    I don't see any signs of high pressure; the primer radius is still plenty round.

    I do see that your firing pin hole is oversized on the pin. . . like nearly every factory rifle I own. It's never been a problem for me, it just leaves a burr on the primer around the periphery of the pin.
     
  4. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    My CCI 400 primers look like your photo. Both are 40,000 psi maximum primers imo. When i used Rem 7 1/2 primers, the primer flow stopped.

    If they vent gas, it will be on the rounded edge of the primer or pierced by the firing pin.

    Gas leakage may pock mark the bolt face or cut the firing pin tip.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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  5. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    The Rem 6 1/2 is not the correct primer for the 223/5.56, Rem 7 1/2 is the correct primmer. The 6 1/2 is for a lower pressure (35k) round, I don't remember which. With that said it's going to show pressure problems due to its thinner cup. I used my Rem 6 1/2 up as a Mag primer for pistol, 357 mag.

    You will eventually pierce one and start flame cutting the bolt and FP. I would not use them.
     
  6. LKLive13

    LKLive13 Member

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    .

    Yeah, I’m tracking. I was honestly curious as to what would happen with them in that particular load. Best I can figure (I know there are lists of variables! Lol) my loads are around 40k on the pressure.
     
  7. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I fail to understand why anyone would put a primer next to their face that the manufacturer recommended against and then pull the trigger. At that price I would have bought them too but I would use them in other loads.
     
  8. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    You mean loads like:
    If that's a 35k primer, then that IS a (considerably) lightened load.
     
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  9. murf

    murf Member

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    the 22 hornet, I believe

    murf
     
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  10. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Good advice, let me add, not only will a pierced or leaking primer flame cut the bolt face, as in:

    qvG7COd.jpg

    the gas release will dish the firing pin! I replaced a handful of AR15 firing pins using the brass finish WSR primers. Those came out in 1999 or so, I called Winchester and they told me they had changed their primers, made them more sensitive, "to combat off center firing pin hits", Nice except for the fact that the thinner cups on the brass finish primers pierced at loads that never bothered the good ole nickel plated WSR.

    AR15 firing pins are cheap compared to the firing pins in bolt guns, so, beware! It might cost you $100 to $200 or more, depending on the rifle, to replace a ruined bolt gun firing pin.

    How much is a pre 64 firing pin going for these days?The cocking cam nose broke on this one. Luckily I had a replacement.

    4CSzEo0.jpg
     
  11. LKLive13

    LKLive13 Member

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    There are several loads of 22 hornet (the named cartridge in the “warning”)that push over 40k pressure. I’m using some pretty sound logic in believing my loads are considerably less than that. I wonder if they put that warning on there because most of the mid/upper end of load data for the 223 gets way over 45k and they want to make sure people don’t use them for “hot loads”? I think it’s a CYA type of thing from Remington to absolve them from responsibilities. I’m fully aware of the “dangers” associated with reloading but hey, sometimes you just have to be risky within reason of course lol!
     
  12. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the appearance of that primer.
    (In fact I only thing I see is that the bolt face has on oversize firing pin hole.)
     
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  13. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I don't think you have "pressure signs." You do have signs that the combination of the load and that gun don't work well with that primer. You are probably nowhere close to a case failure, but you may be close to a primer failure. Not quite as scary, but not good for the gun, and not ideal for the operator, either.
     
  14. LKLive13

    LKLive13 Member

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    What give the indication of the primer being close to failure?
     
  15. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    The same thing others noted- the level of reverse cratering. That’s close to having that raised ridge fail.

    Maybe this is the hottest load and the weakest primer. Or maybe you’ll have 1 in 50 rounds that is 5% stronger and some primers that are a touch thinner.
     
  16. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    @edwardware, no, not light .223 loads, more like the .357 Magnum or .22 Hornet.
     
  17. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    Since nobody else has seemed to ask, what was the load that you classify as "light" (powder type, powder weight, bullet type and bullet weight)?

    Forgive me for bringing this up, but simply saying that the load was "light" tells the readers you expect to advise you absolutely nothing. How far from "maximum" do you consider "light" and how do you determine a "light" load versus a "heavy" load?

    Yes. I would be concerned about that myself.

    In fact, I have had experienced head separation on cartridge cases whose primers looked like that.

    Why do you put "supposed" in quotes.

    Do you not think the manufacturer knew what they were talking about?

    This isn't a game. When you reload, you're building little "pipe bombs". If the manufacturer says don't use them here, why are you using them in the application?

    Without knowing the particulars of the load, nobody can even speculate on whether or not you may have something to ignore or something that requires a trip to a reputable gunsmith.
     
  18. LKLive13

    LKLive13 Member

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    50gr Vmax over 23.5gr H335 at 2.260 COAL, I spit “supposed” in quotes because you will never actually have the exact same load as referenced in any data unless you happen to have the exact same barrel, primer, and cases as referenced in said data. All of those things play a factor I assume so when I load I back off a lot because of that. Hodgdon reloading site gives 24gr min charge of H335 @ 2.210 with that bullet to produce 40k CUP, that’s why I said that particular load was “light” and nowhere close to the max in any way to get anything close to head separation or case splitting. In my OP I was trying to get an opinion if the primer pictured was something to be concerned about with being on the verge of being pierced. The reason I chose to use them for this application is because the load I’m using is even lighter than max loads referenced in some of the .22 hornet data I have seen.
     
  19. murf

    murf Member

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  20. South Prairie Jim

    South Prairie Jim Member

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    1B2C24EC-5ED0-4A68-A7F8-A95BFFB6722D.jpeg
    I tested all of these primers in my (6 br) and the only one I would never try again is the 61/2 Remington.
    Pierced right away I believe they are for a much lower pressure cartridge
    YRMV
     
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  21. Revilo

    Revilo Member

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    Aren’t Federal primers the softest. I get moon craters with Federal even though the rest looks perfect.
     
  22. South Prairie Jim

    South Prairie Jim Member

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    Well I’m not qualified to answer that, but I will say that they seem to leave more of a tar like texture to the primer pockets then the CCI primers, noticed when cleaning pockets
     
  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    The Rem 6 1/2 primer is not intended for full power .223 loads, and I do not know what pressure yours is at. I do know the edges of the primers are rounded, hinting at the pressure being low, but I also know the primer cup is flowing up/around/into the gap around the firing pin in the firing pin hole, which is not good.

    That tells me the primer is not appropriate for your rifle with that load. It also tells me you have a loosely fitting firing pin in relation to the firing pin hole, which makes it even more of a good idea to use a primer with a stronger cup. The bolt can be fixed if it does that with other more appropriate primers.
     
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