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Primer discharge legality?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by chrisf8657, Dec 31, 2008.

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  1. chrisf8657

    chrisf8657 Member

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    Im sure some of you have seen the Speer Plastic Bullets & Cases for Training.
    They are simply a case & plastic piece that is powered solely by a primer, no gunpowder.

    While, technically literally it might be, I don't see how it is as no deadly projectile or gunpowder is involved.

    My question is this:

    1. Would it be considered "discharing a firearm within city limits" by shooting these?
    2. Would it be considered same if only the primer was loaded, essentially making it a "cap gun"?

    Thanks fellas
     
  2. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    That would depend entirely on your City's particular ordinances. Look them up, and consult with your Chief of Police.
     
  3. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Agreed. This is really something that you need to find out for yourself, rather than asking a bunch of random folks on the internet.
     
  4. unspellable

    unspellable Member

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    On technical points, this would be discharging a firearm.

    As stated above, the fine details of the law vary from place to place.

    As a general principal, if you live in a place where this question matters, you live in a place where you will be hassled for it.

    I wouldn't try it in my backyard. In my basement the noise level would be low enough that no one outside the house would notice. But then I'd have to worry about lead in the air from the primers.
     
  5. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Definition directly out of the Federal Regulations:

    I would say that using a primer to expel a projectile would fit right into this definition.
     
  6. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I agree, whether it is smokeless powder driving the projectile or a primer makes no difference. It is still a firearm using an explosive charge of some sort to drive a projectile.

    Just because the explosive force is rather small -- it is, nonetheless, an explosive force.

    If we start comparing the "size" of the explosive force and the power of such, then one could easily say that a .22 short is not really a firearm cartridge as compared to a 500 Magnum or a 50 BMG round.

    If you want to get beyond that, use a water pistol.
     
  7. rscalzo

    rscalzo Member

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    Don't underestimate the power of those plastic bullets. I had them penetrate a wood backstop years ago. Under the right circumstance, they can injure.

    I can only comment on NJ law which states:

    "Ammunition" means various projectiles, including bullets, missiles, slugs or balls together with
    fuses, propelling charges and primers that may be fired, ejected, projected, released, or emitted from
    firearms or weapons.


    "Firearm or firearms" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic
    rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected
    any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by
    means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or
    explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm, which is in the nature of
    an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is
    a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or
    is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch
    in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.


    Both definitions would most likely be satisfied by the Speer bullets.
     
  8. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    So,

    rubber band guns that you make for kids that shoot rubber bands are firearms.

    Also, using a rubberband and a paperclip bent in a V-fashion and propelled using the rubberband between two fingers (much like a slingshot effect) would also be considered a firearm (in "Joisy"). I suppose slingshots are also firearms.:cuss:
     
  9. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Uhh...no. Firearms operate by harnessing a small explosive charge (primer and gunpowder) to propel a projectile. A rubber band gun uses stored kinetic energy to propel rubber bands.

    I guess I don't quite understand your post.
     
  10. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Ask your City Attorney instead (that's who the Chief of Police is gonna put you on hold and call when you call him, anyway).
     
  11. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Inspector's attempt at sarcasm is pointless and a bit paranoid. A rubber band gun does not use an explosive.

    Jim
     
  12. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    According to those items underlined, a rubber band and paper clip would be considered a firearm, since it is capable of bodily harm (according to the description of NJ Law). I merely stated and paraphrased what I read. Someone could easily use a rubber band and paper clip to put out a person's eye.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2009
  13. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Lots of times it is not the letter of the law nor the intent of the law, but the application of the law. If somebody influential or a cop in the precinct objects to you popping primers, you can get a world of hassle and lawyer bills, win or lose.

    Do you think you could make a rubber band gun powerful enough to stick up the liquor store? It would be a firearm under postal regulations because it would "expel a projectile by... other mechanical action... with sufficient force to be used as a weapon."


    431 Definitions
    431.1 Firearm
    A firearm is defined as any device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.
     
  14. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I beg your pardon.
     
  15. subknave

    subknave Member

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    I think there was some confusion on Inspectors post. He was referring SPECIFICALLY to New Jersey law which reads differently than the federal regulations. In NEW JERSEY I believe a BB gun is considered a firearm.
     
  16. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Yes, I was referring to the NJ law that was quoted in a previous post.
    Since the OP did not make it clear where they are from, we must assume the worst case scenario as far as laws are concerned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2009
  17. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    That would include numerous types of construction tools including the ones that actually use a .22 caliber shell to drive a nail.
     
  18. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    You are right, and according to NJ law, it would also include nail guns that operate on compressed air and an air compressor.

    I've actually held the safety back on a framing nail gun and shot nails at least 1/2" into kiln-dried spruce studs from a distance of approximately 12".
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2009
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