Primer Quality!

[exbrit49]

Well, finally after almost 40 years, I had my first FTF. It was a.357 mag and instead of a “boom” I got a “click”. After I finished the cylinder, I checked the primer and the pin indent was normal and the primer was seated to the normal depth. I retried it and it went off normally. I guess I can’t complain after re-loading thousands of rounds in various calibers that really was the first misfire!

Later I got to thinking about it and saw it from a different perspective. I looked at how many rounds I have loaded and never had a problem! So, instead of complaining, I am actually going to compliment CCI and Winchester for the high quality primers they have supplied me over all these years.

We are all quick to complain but sometimes we should look at how well a supplier has performed. We take quality for granted. I’m guessing I have loaded close to 50,000 rounds and one reject out of 50,000 is outstanding. WELL DONE CCI AND WINCHESTER.

 

[hdwhit]

I think your perspective on it is entirely correct.

I know of few other products that can claim 99.998% reliability.

 

[LiveLife]

I know of few other products that can claim 99.998% reliability.

I agree. Primers are made to perform reliably and resist exposure to moisture, vibration, temperature extremes of handling/storage over long periods of time, even in extreme conditions of combat.

Comparison picture showing difference in anvil/tip shape and priming compound sealant/barrier (FYI, color you see under the anvil is not the color of priming compound rather color of sealant/barrier) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-your-experience.630512/page-2#post-7794378

I had my first FTF ... I retried it and it went off normally.

If a primer ignites on subsequent strikes, it was likely not fully seated to set the anvil tip against the priming compound and first strike likely seated the primer deeper in the primer pocket.

When I experienced occasional FTF with a particular lot of Tula SP primers due to harder primer cups (multiple strikes failed to ignite the primer), I found not all primer pockets measured the same depth as primer pocket depth variance could be from different headstamp, how many times the case was reloaded (primer pocket does get loose after multiple firing), how much crud was at the bottom of primer pocket or reloaders modifying them.

As to primer performance of consistently igniting, after almost 30 years of reloading and 500,000 rounds, different brand primers like CCI, Fiocchi, Magtech, PMC, S&B, Tula (SR and .223), Winchester, Wolf all performed consistently without failure to fire. Early on in reloading, when primers fired on subsequent strikes, I learned about setting anvil tip against the priming compound and since seated primers until I felt the secondary resistance of anvil being pushed up inside the cup against the priming compound or to slightly below flush. Only exception has been with a particular lot of Tula SP primer with thicker primer cup and I have not bought anymore Tula primers since.

As to primer performance of consistency in primer flash size and duration, that's for another thread discussion.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I'm a bit amazed that those tiny primer assemblies can be made so consistently well, by the billions+.

As to seating them, I don't push them to a specific depth, but push firmly till they can't go in any more

 

[GooseGestapo]

I too had some failures with Tula. Several hits failed to ignite.
The only difference in CCI, Federal, Winchester, S&B, etc is that Federal Small pistol are the most sensitive, S&B the hardest, and Tula the hardest seating.

I did have two lots of Winchester Large Rifle that blew out in the edge, but have discarded all of those and swore off Winchester rifle primers.

But, generally, primers are some of the most reliable consumer products.

 

[shooter1]

If a primer ignites on subsequent strikes, it was likely not fully seated to set the anvil tip against the priming compound and first strike likely seated the primer deeper in the primer pocket.

Exactly!
str1

 

[LiveLife]

As to seating them, I don't push them to a specific depth, but push firmly till they can't go in any more

+1. For most cases, seating slightly below flush around .004" will set the anvil tip against the priming compound but even seating .008" below flush and flattening the top of primer cup still reliably ignited primers.

So seat those primers deep and hard without worries - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-your-experience.630512/page-4#post-7810685

 

[exbrit49]

I have always used the Lee Hand primer tool and am pretty consistent in priming and feel the anvil seat, usually a few thousands below flush, Be that as it may I'm still very happy to have had such reliable primers and my method of seating them.

 

[LiveLife]

Same here. CCI and Winchester primers have been my reference primers most of my reloading years (except for component shortage years) while performing flawlessly and I hand primed my USPSA match loads with Lee Auto Prime which gave that "feel" when the anvil feet bottomed and pushed against the priming compound.

 

[Dill]

I finally had my first legitimate bad primer this past week. Winchester SPP, I pulled the trigger in a 9mm reload, click. Ejected the round, finished the mag, and reloaded it, click. Tried one more time, click. Oh well, it happens.

 

[Dudedog]

Yep, we probably don't give them the appreciation they deserve.....
At 2.5 - 3 cents each, can't even buy piece of gum for 3 cents anymore.

 

[hdwhit]

bds wrote:
...seated primers until I felt the secondary resistance of anvil being pushed up inside the cup against the priming compound or to slightly below flush...

Early on, I got a Lee hand priming tool (the one with the threaded shell holders) and although I didn't know that I was setting the anvil inside the cup, I did learn to watch for the feel of what you call "secondary resistance" if I wanted my primers to work. After Lee stopped making that model tool (and the shell holders that went with it), I bought an original RCBS priming tool (no primer feed, you placed each primer manually) that I still use to this day and it, too, transmits that "secondary resistance".

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Well, finally after almost 40 years, I had my first FTF. It was a.357 mag and instead of a “boom” I got a “click”. After I finished the cylinder, I checked the primer and the pin indent was normal and the primer was seated to the normal depth. I retried it and it went off normally. I guess I can’t complain after re-loading thousands of rounds in various calibers that really was the first misfire

Like said, usually when a prime goes off on a second strike it's not the primer that's at fault, it's the reloaders. While you are correct praising the lowly little primer you still have not had a FTF caused by a bad primer.

 

[ewlyon]

I think the only actually bad primer I've had was in a factory round. Either Remington or Winchester (can't remember) .45acp JHP round that was only a couple years old, stored under ideal conditions, but didn't go off no matter how many times I hit it. If I remember right I saved it to pull it apart and see what is going on but never got around to it.

 

[Blue68f100]

I've had a couple over the years. One was missing the primer compound and the other the anvil. Don't know how come I missed the anvil when loading the primers but it happened.

 

[ATLDave]

Only bad primer I ever had was one I'm pretty sure I made bad. Loaded a round, then decided for a forgotten reason that I didn't trust it... used impact puller to pull bullet. Resized mouth of case, kept first primer in place. Put in powder, bullet, etc. Then failure with that round. Diassembled round with impact puller again... primer compound mixed in with powder and missing from primer cup. I think I managed to get the primer compound to partially break up while in the inertial impact puller.

Never had a repeat, despite having followed the same steps a number of times. Never had any other bad primers, although I have had a few that I didn't get seated all the way earlier in my reloading career.

 

[cfullgraf]

I’ve had a handful of bad primers over the decades that I have been reloading but the relibility of primers is sooooo good that I never was concerned.

The failures may have been bad primers or they could have been self inflicted failures.

But, once I had a spat of failure to fires. After some trouble shooting and experimenting, the problem was limited to only one firearm and replacing the springs cured the failure to fires.

 

[mdi]

I agree w the OP. I'm amazed at how many billions of primers are made vs. the failure rate. I've been reloading since 1969 (off and on, mostly on) and can only remember one or two actually "bad" primers. I've had anvils fall out of the cup (during shipping?) but can't remember any failure to fire that wasn't my fault...

I started loading pre-web so I wasn't aware of "dimensions below flush" criteria for primer seating. I just looked at a primer very early in my reloading career and saw how it works so I just pushed it in all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket. I have never had any primers go too far into the pocket and fail....

 

[Rule3]

We are all quick to complain but sometimes we should look at how well a supplier has performed. We take quality for granted. I’m guessing I have loaded close to 50,000 rounds and one reject out of 50,000 is outstanding. WELL DONE CCI AND WINCHESTER.

But from what you posted, it went bang the second strike so it really was not a reject.

They are pretty amazing little suckers last forever and hard to kill even when you try to!

 

[FROGO207]

Energizer needs to take note of this.

 

[Speedo66]

Now if only rimfires were that consistent.

 

[exbrit49]

Now if only rimfires were that consistent.

I quit shooting .22 rimfire about 6 years ago. They got to be hard to find and prices got ridiculous! The quality got so bad that it was fully expected that there would be several misfires in pretty much any bulk pack from our major manufacturers.

 

[Hondo 60]

I retried it and it went off normally.

That has me questioning, was it the primer?
Probably not.
It was probably seated too high.
The 1st strike seated it & the 2nd strike fired it.

 

[exbrit49]

That has me questioning, was it the primer?
Probably not.
It was probably seated too high.
The 1st strike seated it & the 2nd strike fired it.

Beg to differ but it was seated about
.002 to .004 below the case. Using a hand primer you can definitely feel it seat. That's why I love the old Lee hand primer. You feel it seat.
Same reason I still use my single stage Rock Chucker. You can feel if there are any problems. Loading yesterday, I felt a light resize pressure and thought. Oh a cracked case. Checked it and found a neck crack.
That's the reason I don't like progressives or press based priming. No feel or feedback.

 

[Hondo 60]

Certainly not trying to flame or embarrass.
Just a thought is all.