Primers not seating

[length_of_pull_1]

Ok, so the whole story is... I got some 7.62x39 brass to make into 6.5 Grendel. I got them home and ran 20 pieces through my Lee Grendel die. I primed all 20 cases with cci 200 lrp s using a Lee Auto Prime tool and loaded them up rather lightly with some IMR 4895 pushing 123gr ELDs (all I could get my mits on). I took 'em to the range and shot 'em all. I wet tumbled the brass clean and ran it through the same resizing die. Then I tried to prime them. CCI 200 lrp s from the same box I used the first time and out of the first 5 cases I got 1 primer shoved in, the other 4 I couldn't squeeze the thing hard enough to barely get them started. So I cleaned the pockets and failed to get them in again, so I reamed the pockets and still failed to get them in. So I got angry and primed them on my press by using all the force the press has to get them in, and it finally worked with about 3 out of 20 still barely protruding. Btw, mixed head stamp brass, mostly GECO, Winchester and S&B. What gives?

 

[milsurpguy]

That is odd. For situations like this is why I have the rcbs ram prime.
It makes them fit.

 

[bullseye308]

It’s gonna be something obvious, but I’m at a loss on this one. Same primers, same brass, same priming tool, should work obviously. Something changed, but the question is what?

 

[Charlie98]

What kind of brass you got there?

Rereading the OP, I see you listed your brass. Different question: Is one particular brand of brass giving you fits over another?

As was mentioned, if you uniformed the pockets, and you still can't seat, you are missing something....

 

[bullseye308]

Going out on a far limb here, but possibly lack of lube from wet tumbling? Probably not, still scratching my head on this one.

 

[243winxb]

The cartridges may take different size primers..

The primer needs to go straight, into the pocket. The rim thickness needs to fit the shell holder well.

As the primer starts to make contact with the brass, does the case tilt a few degrees to one side?

rcbs ram prime.

Will seat almost anything. But can smash the primer.

High pressure can reform a case head. It doesn't always expand the primer pocket. A loaded 6.5 Grendel rounds outside neck diameter, should not be larger then. .293"

Just a couple of wild guesses.

 

[Dale Alan]

How did the new fire-formed brass look ? Are your lee dies small base ? Do you have pin gauges to get some accurate primer pocket dimensions ?

 

[Lennyjoe]

I find it hard to believe if you ran a primer pocket uniformer on each of the brass cases. No reason why they shouldn’t seat with the Lee primer tool. Not sure what else to add to your frustration....

 

[AK Hunter]

Maybe from fire forming it didn't form equal on both sides so the bottom of the case is not flat with the sides. That would hold the primer hole at a slight angle. ?? Don't know just throwing something out there.

 

[Reloadron]

That is unusual especially since primers from the same lot (box) went in previously. Then you cleaned the pockets and still resistance followed by reaming the pockets and still having resistance. While not the best way to measure, short of pin gauges you can measure the primer width and primer pocket width using your calipers. Large rifle primers should be about 0.2105" to 0.2130" diameter and the case pockets 0.2085" to 0.2100". A nice to have is a Ballistic Tools Primer Pocket Gauge. Not of any help now though but $20 well spent. We are missing something in this. You primed the cases, you fired the rounds, you resized and deprimed the cases and now the cases won't take the same primers you previously used. Try measuring the primer OD and the pocket ID using your calipers. I just can see how a primer pocket could shrink or a primer grow.

Ron

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Ok, so the whole story is... I got some 7.62x39 brass to make into 6.5 Grendel. I got them home and ran 20 pieces through my Lee Grendel die. I primed all 20 cases with cci 200 lrp s using a Lee Auto Prime tool and loaded them up rather lightly with some IMR 4895 pushing 123gr ELDs (all I could get my mits on). I took 'em to the range and shot 'em all. I wet tumbled the brass clean and ran it through the same resizing die. Then I tried to prime them. CCI 200 lrp s from the same box I used the first time and out of the first 5 cases I got 1 primer shoved in, the other 4 I couldn't squeeze the thing hard enough to barely get them started. So I cleaned the pockets and failed to get them in again, so I reamed the pockets and still failed to get them in. So I got angry and primed them on my press by using all the force the press has to get them in, and it finally worked with about 3 out of 20 still barely protruding. Btw, mixed head stamp brass, mostly GECO, Winchester and S&B. What gives?

This is going to sound silly, sorry but, there was a long thread not too long ago about some wet-tumble brass sticking primer bodies. The centers would tear and drop out but they would leave a ring around the primer pocket and it "looked" like they were clean primer pockets but nothing would seat in them. The cause seemed to go back to the wet tumble and drying method. Is this ringing any bells or am I off on the wrong tangent?

Anyway, something to look at. You said you cleaned and reamed the pockets but did you ever check their size?

 

[Bfh_auto]

If you're using a Lee primer. Try wiggling the brass with light pressure on the primer until you feel it start.
If that doesn't work. You have a weird issue.

 

[CMV]

Only thing that comes to mind is you used the auto prime for something else in between and forgot about that, so have the wrong shell holder installed? Otherwise, same brass, same primers, same tool - and uniformed pockets....only variable i can think of there is something with the tool (setup) changed.

Put the reading glasses on, refer to the micro-printed chart that comes with the Lee hand prime shellholder set, and verify correct # is installed. If so, double check it's clean and there isn't some bit of crud lodged under the lip that's keeping the brass from locating correctly.

 

[length_of_pull_1]

Thanks for the input guys. I measured the rest of the box of primers and they are all .210 spot on. I had five cases with primers standing proud even after I shoved them in hard on the press, so I checked to see if they would chamber in my gun, and after I dropped the bolt on them half a dozen times the primers were seated low enough to close all the way. 4 cases were GECO and 1 S&B. I guess I have to chalk it up to there maybe some film in the pockets of the brass and Dawn, Lemyshine and ss pins didn't take care of? I will definitley measure the pockets after I shoot up this batch. The weirdest thing to me is still the fact that the pocket cleaner went in with no resistance at all and spun freely and the reamer only shaved the tiniest bit of brass, nothing like when you remove crimps. I have another 80 cases that all came from Capital Cartridge together, I guess we'll see how the rest of them fare

 

[243winxb]

The dropping of the bolt to seat primers, is dangerous, if using loaded ammo. Not recommended to seat primers.

The "Ram Prime" is made by Lee & RCBS. Buy One.

 

[tlf65]

On another forum there was a discussion about WLP primers separating with the bottom coming off leaving the sides of the primer in the pocket.

 

[JFrank]

Something is very very wrong here, I would pull down all of these rounds and get to the bottom of the question as crushed primers are Proven to have poor accuracy at best leaving no viable reason to attempt firing them, perhaps even unsafe.....

 

[CMV]

This might be kind of dumb, but I did this using mixed brass and thought I had some primers proud. Different brass, the primer can look or actually is seated deeper. Slightly different levels of concave and eyes get tired examining small things after time. Anyway, measure & make sure - or set on real flat surface like glass and see if there is any wobble. You can measure like this too:


3 thou is about the thickness of a sheet of copy paper, so visually it can look flush, possibly proud depending on light or angle

 

[unwashed]

That is unusual especially since primers from the same lot (box) went in previously. Then you cleaned the pockets and still resistance followed by reaming the pockets and still having resistance. While not the best way to measure, short of pin gauges you can measure the primer width and primer pocket width using your calipers. Large rifle primers should be about 0.2105" to 0.2130" diameter and the case pockets 0.2085" to 0.2100". A nice to have is a Ballistic Tools Primer Pocket Gauge. Not of any help now though but $20 well spent. We are missing something in this. You primed the cases, you fired the rounds, you resized and deprimed the cases and now the cases won't take the same primers you previously used. Try measuring the primer OD and the pocket ID using your calipers. I just can see how a primer pocket could shrink or a primer grow.

Ron

I just bought 2 of these gauges, should of did it years ago. Primers pocket that I thought were to loose actually were good. Didn't have to remove some crimps from brass because of these gauges, saved me time.

 

[length_of_pull_1]

The dropping of the bolt to seat primers, is dangerous, if using loaded ammo. Not recommended to seat primers.

The "Ram Prime" is made by Lee & RCBS. Buy One.

No worries there, the cases were primed but empty and I had the muzzle pointed away from the friendlies. I didn't set out to seat the primers with the bolt it just ended up that way while I was seeing if it would go into battery.

 

[243winxb]

Could the decapping pin be hitting the case web, flash hole & making the pocket less deep?

I didn't think this could be done, but this guy did. The bottom of the prime pocket is GONE. See photos.https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/6ppc-primer-pocket-blowout.4037069/

 

[buba68]

Thanks for the input guys. I measured the rest of the box of primers and they are all .210 spot on. I had five cases with primers standing proud even after I shoved them in hard on the press, so I checked to see if they would chamber in my gun, and after I dropped the bolt on them half a dozen times the primers were seated low enough to close all the way. 4 cases were GECO and 1 S&B. I guess I have to chalk it up to there maybe some film in the pockets of the brass and Dawn, Lemyshine and ss pins didn't take care of? I will definitley measure the pockets after I shoot up this batch. The weirdest thing to me is still the fact that the pocket cleaner went in with no resistance at all and spun freely and the reamer only shaved the tiniest bit of brass, nothing like when you remove crimps. I have another 80 cases that all came from Capital Cartridge together, I guess we'll see how the rest of them fare

If you have any Hornady One Shot case lube I would give the primer pockets a light misting of lube and see if that will let the primers seat any easier. One Shot will not degrade the primers or powder so no need to clean it off. Just something to try.

 

[FROGO207]

If you were to try this I would spray a bunch of it on a Q-tip at close range and then put that in the primer pocket and twist. You could do 25 or more before more OS application. Less mess all around. I do this when I want to lube necks internally.

 

[ThomasT]

I know you said you have loaded this brass before with no problems. I have reloaded S&B brass before and had trouble getting the CCI primers to seat flush. I just thought maybe Europeans had primers that were slightly shorter than American primers and the primer holes were slightly less deep. That was using S&B 243 brass. I decided after I shot the reloads up I wouldn't reload that brand of brass again.