Prioities

[Pipefighter]

So when the adrenaline is pumping,does anyone besides me have a hard time reholstering. I look like an idiot trying to get my gun back in my iwb holster. Would you forget to put the safety back on. Would Mexican carry be acceptable?
In a mall situation I can see just wondering off with the crowd and coming back later to tell your story. In the restaurant videos no way I'm laying a half full gun on the counter and laying down on the floor.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

So when the adrenaline is pumping,does anyone besides me have a hard time reholstering. I look like an idiot trying to get my gun back in my iwb holster. Would you forget to put the safety back on. Would Mexican carry be acceptable?
In a mall situation I can see just wondering off with the crowd and coming back later to tell your story. In the restaurant videos no way I'm laying a half full gun on the counter and laying down on the floor.

What kind of holster do you use?

I don't remember anyone putting their gun on a counter in the restaurant video. But I do remember her saying the exercise is complete at one point.

 

[MedWheeler]

^^If I can't readily get it back in my holster, it's going in my pocket. If I was carrying a gun that had a safety (that I actually used, such as a 1911), I'd re-engage it.

I would resort to "Mexican carry" if seconds were critical and I could not get it hidden on myself, out of my hands, quickly enough any other way. Just get it concealed again before the cops show up.

In many scenarios, the police simply drive everyone still mobile out of the immediate area. They want in, and they want you out. There is no room for dialogue during this initial approach by law enforcement. If it happens like this, just follow the herd, remain nearby, and then report to the nearest LEO/A once able to do so if you have fired shots or have any other information you feel is necessary to pass on.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

One thing I know from some of the active shooter training I've done is that the police are going to cordon off the area and vet everyone in that mall. You're going to be there for hours.

I don't know what I'd do but I do know that I wouldn't shoot if I had Any. Other. Option. Including running away.

One thing that I question everytime a scenario like this comes up is the people that say they'd "take charge" afterwards. What are you going to do if no one listens to you?

Any response from me would be predicated on the assumption that I am on my own once I pull the trigger. The first thing I'd do is try to get out of the flow of traffic and if I could leave I would and drive to the police station and (for lack of a better term) turn myself in. Failing that I'd try to get into an office or someplace where I'm not standing in the open where another patron can point at me and yell at the cops "HE'S GOT A GUN TOO!!!!!'' .

If it happened in my church there's already a protocol in place that involves congregants who are police officers themselves making contact with responding officers and the security volunteer(s) who actually engaged the shooter(s) would be in the church office when the police showed up. Probably with a lawyer already present.

 

[9MMare]

Short video from Tatiana Whitlock giving a possible answer

It may be the camera angle but it looked like there were people sitting directly in the line of fire behind the active shooter. Very risky on the part of Tatiana. I liked how she handled the rest of it.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

It may be the camera angle but it looked like there were people sitting directly in the line of fire behind the active shooter. Very risky on the part of Tatiana. I liked how she handled the rest of it.

I don't know if they were using simunitions or blanks

 

[9MMare]

I don't know if they were using simunitions or blanks

But for a scenario (to depict real life), it's very important to take all the circumstances into consideration, to show people...and in shooting in a public place (and any shooting really) you have to be very very conscious of your backstop. That's what I was referring to.

 

[Hanzo581]

But for a scenario (to depict real life), it's very important to take all the circumstances into consideration, to show people...and in shooting in a public place (and any shooting really) you have to be very very conscious of your backstop. That's what I was referring to.

So, if your backstop isn't clear you just don't shoot? No one wants to hit bystanders but sometimes there is no time to change positions and the shot has to be taken. Or no?

 

[Kleanbore]

So, if your backstop isn't clear you just don't shoot? No one wants to hit bystanders but sometimes there is no time to change positions and the shot has to be taken. Or no?

Regrettably, that is sometimes the case in the immediate necessity of a self defense encounter, but it would likely not support the idea of intervention.

 

[9MMare]

So, if your backstop isn't clear you just don't shoot? No one wants to hit bystanders but sometimes there is no time to change positions and the shot has to be taken. Or no?

Probably not. After all...I would be held completely liable for their deaths/injuries. And what's the difference if I kill them or the active shooter? They are still dead.

 

[Hanzo581]

Probably not. After all...I would be held completely liable for their deaths/injuries. And what's the difference if I kill them or the active shooter? They are still dead.

I mean in that video he's basically shooting everyone he sees, so you're saying instead of risking possibly hitting a bystander you'd rather be shot?

 

[9MMare]

I mean in that video he's basically shooting everyone he sees, so you're saying instead of risking possibly hitting a bystander you'd rather be shot?

No, that's not what I wrote. But in that scenario, his gun was not pointed at me. I would check my target, assess, and in that scenario, be looking for cover or an angle that did not have people in the line of fire.

My first obligation is to save myself and those with me. And right after that is not killing other innocent people if I can avoid it.

 

[grampajack]

Ask the other guy if he's hit. Then ask him if he sees any other shooters. If it's clear, agree to holster your weapons and help the wounded. Put your guns away, find whoever is bleeding the worst, and put pressure on the wound until the EMTs get there. And keep your mouth shut from that point forward!

But that's in a perfect world. In the real world, one of you would probably mistake the other for another gunman and hopefully no one would get shot before the confusion was settled. Or depending on the layout, one or both of you might very well be entirely unaware of the other's existence. It's just no telling how things like that would play out.

 

["Dandy"]

How prominent is the position?
What direction is the shooter facing?
How likely are they to be able spot you when they are on the ground?
Answering what I would do is impossible and even answering what I "should" do is hard.
I'll just say this it would be unfair to put other lives at risk if your actions have changed the dynamics of the situation and it's not resolved.

 

[Pipefighter]

Trunk monkey. I use a Don Hume bikini holster and a Tagua. I've never tried a double lined holster.
Check out post 9. Big red arrow.

 

[Elkins45]

If someone isn't currently shooting at me I see no reason why I should give them a reason to make me a priority target. The minute there's a gun in your hand you run the risk of being SOMEONE's target---maybe Gecko45 is on duty that day---or maybe you're unlucky enough to be standing a few feet from Travis Bickle.

As I have said a number of times before, a careful examination of my CCDW license has yet to reveal the words "mall hero" on it. Scooting is better than shooting if the situation allows.

 

[Golf-21-Bravo]

Seen a training film, one of many, which included a photo of a guy who took a .44 mag to the face. Bullet entered below the eye, deflected downward (probably cracked the the facial bone structure), and exited the neck on the same side. This guy managed to crawl almost 100 yards. Anyone who can crawl that far could in theory still shoot.

This. If going down the 'drawn and dropped the guy' route, unless I've missed something in an earlier post; we don't know of the shooters condition apart from that he's down.

I'd continue towards him with my weapon up and basically clear his position, make sure he's dead or dying or at least unable to continue and remove his weapon and move it as far away from him as possible. This'll no doubt cause dramas with forensics later but personally I think it's worth the risk and if it's in a mall hopefully there'll be some form of cctv to help justify your actions later.

Then, once I know he's not a threat I'd start with sorting out the rest. It's not ideal but to be honest nothing about this situation is, it's a bad day out for everyone.

 

[Hanzo581]

Ok, I can't take it anymore, can a mod please fix the title of this thread?