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Prison rape

Discussion in 'Legal' started by zahc, May 16, 2005.

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  1. zahc

    zahc Member

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    I hear it all the time, people talking about prison rape as if it was normal and accepted part of the criminal justices system. I hear comments all the time, hear on the High Road even, about how someone is to be sent to prison where 'bubba will take care of him' in that way, or some similar sentiment.

    Does it bother anyone else that prison rape, if it is as prevalent as it is made out to be (and I don't know if it is), is not taken as something that seriously needs to be prevented? I mean I have never seen a prison sentence that listed rape as part of the punishment. But all I keep hearing more comments that seem to approve of it or at least accept it.
     
  2. shooter58

    shooter58 Member

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    I don't really worry about it. It kinda falls under the category of "If you can't do the time....don't do the crime" mode. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for crooks that get caught. I believe we have enough bleeding heart mentallities already.
     
  3. dave3006

    dave3006 member

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    I have heard numerous Gunowners and "law and order" types giggle about prison rape. They assume only bad guys are in prison. They assume the system is on their side because they are one of the good guys.

    Newsflash - someday the gov't may define you as the bad guy.

    Knowing what all of us know about the complete corruption of our legal system and the randomness of our legal system, gunowners should be the first to speak up.

    Make the crime fit the punishment without cruelty. Execute murderers after a speedy appeal. Make people pay restitution to their victims. Make the sentences real without time off for good behavior. Then, fully restore the rights of the released.

    (I don't know anyone who has been raped in prison. I just hate injustice.)
     
  4. boofus

    boofus Guest

    What goes on in there is ok by me. After all, guns are banned in prison. So according to the grabbers it should be a paradise. Who am I to argue against paradise?
     
  5. VARifleman

    VARifleman Member

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    Do you really think that after being raped for a few years and raping others that they aren't going to become more hardened criminals than they already were? It's not like we can lock them all up for life, in which case, who cares if it happens, but we let them out after a couple of years of this and they have learned how to control people, how to disarm them, how to violently subdue them, etc. I believe that it's counter productive to let it go on. But the FBI doesn't give one ???? about it, afterall, they have the definition of "forcible rape" defined to exclude prison rape, well...rape of any male what-so-ever. :cuss:

    Here it is LINK:

    Damn sexist pigs...I tell you, the white males are the most discriminated against group in this country... :cuss:
     
  6. pax

    pax Member

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    Law & order types giggling about prison rape = disgusting.

    But why do so many folks so easily assume that prisoners are "allowed" to rape each other?

    You cannot leave the prisoners in 24 hour lockdown in solitary confinement.

    If you do anything other than 24 hour locked down solitary, they'll find a way to beat on each other when you're not looking.

    Oh, and VARifleman? Rape of anyone's rear end is called "sexual assault." It, too, is against the law.

    pax
     
  7. zahc

    zahc Member

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    I see this mentality a lot, but it doesn't compute. I can see that you don't mind harsher sentences for criminals, and I agree, but sentences are ostensibly handed out in proportion to the crime commited by a jury etc. Saying you don't care about a grossly arbitrary, disproportionate and uncontrolled modification of prison sentences seems really morally irresponsible to me.

    Besides the simple fact that rape or the possibility of such as a part of a prison sentence does not enter officially into consideration in the law or the courtroom and as such is just a violation of due process and honesty.

    I belive in justice, does that make me a bleeding heart mentality?
     
  8. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    pax has it closest to right. I have less than 30 officers to supervise over 800 inmates - how do I watch all of them 24/7? We do security checks every 30 minutes, more than the Fed mandated minimum. I have worked level 5 lockdown, and now level 4 high security. The level 3/2 yards have open dorms, where they all bunk in a long bay. All bays, cells, showers, etc, are directly observable from the control room. There is none of the famous "prison shower rape" in modern AZ prisons, due to the design. If we could get the funding, we could close places like Central, built in 1914, and open newer facilities. But with paying to house and care for 3000 inmates over bed space, and thousands of illegal aliens we can't get rid of, oh well. Besides, no one approves funding for prisons - we are out of sight, out of mind, when we do our jobs right, and lousy knuckle draggin' "guards" when something goes wrong.
    We prosecute rape cases inside our wall with street charges, and all allegations ARE investigated - I have done paperwork on more than one. Allegations of officer abuse or condoning of such assaults is grounds for termination AND street charges being filed against the officer - I have seen that happen once.
    Take a tour of your local prison sometime, as they do organize those sometimes. It might be an eye opener for ya! :rolleyes:
     
  9. dev_null

    dev_null Member

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    Then we need to stop putting people in prison for consensual crimes and reserve prisons for true criminals. I've never heard a judge actually sentence someone convicted of buying a bag of weed (e.g.), to anal rape and death by AIDs, have you?
     
  10. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    I don't approve of prison rape at all. Wow, that seems so obvious, I can't believe I had to say it... "Hi, I'm Sean, and I think rape is bad. In related news, I like pretty girls, guns, and big dogs with cool personalities"

    But I think we have to look at the underlying reason why people joke (hope?) that people sent to prison get raped. The reason is that there is a general feeling that people who commit heinous crimes have a nasty habit of getting off light in terms of punishment handed down by the courts, so the hope is that there is some other factor that makes the punishment fit the crime. This is pretty irrational, however; is there any reason to think that rapists are going to give extra punishment to the people who deserve it? Counting on the scum you despise the most to dispense "extra justice" in a fair and rational way is self-evidently a bad "system."

    I believe that prison rapists should be treated like rapists in the outside world should be (but aren't) treated, i.e. tried and promptly executed if found guilty. But since people raping children don't get executed, the odds that prison rapists will get dealt with in any meaningful manner seems small.
     
  11. molonlabe

    molonlabe Member

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    No, That just make you a High Roader, I don't know about anyone else. Sick positions to take.
     
  12. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    I don't know how prevalent it is. I don't care to be the guniea pig to find out, either. I do know there is an anti-prison rape activist group out there, caught them on CNN or Fox News one day.
     
  13. swampsniper

    swampsniper Member

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    It could happen to You

    I have a friend that was raped in prison.
    He heard His wife scream in the night, woke up and found a creep coming at Him with a pick handle. He shot the SOB. That part was OK, but then, He panicked, and shot the perp again, while the perp was on the floor. He drew a jury of urban liberals, and a 10 year sentence.
    He never deserved prison, for a minute.
     
  14. VARifleman

    VARifleman Member

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    Yes, I'm aware, however, since the fbi aren't the ones charging people with rape, I don't see where you got that I was saying that it was legal... :rolleyes:

    They use that in runing statistics and all. If you had followed the link, you would have realized that.
     
  15. boofus

    boofus Guest

    Sounds like more states need Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground laws.
     
  16. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Speaking as a chaplain in the Federal prison system, I can assure you that the problem is taken very seriously indeed. However, as Armoredman has pointed out, we can't supervise all of our inmates all of the time. When you have about 1,500 high-security inmates in a twelve-unit prison, two to a cell, you're going to have cases where some inmates will hit on others - up to and including rape. We take every possible precaution to protect inmates, and prosecute vigorously whenever we find an incident of rape, but we can't protect everybody.

    Unfortunately, all of these guys locked up in there are predators - and if they can't have innocent citizens to prey on, they're going to prey on each other, or act up in other ways. I've had to lock inmates up in solitary for masturbating in my chapel, or exposing themselves to our secretary, or stuff like that... they're nasty brutes in many ways, and being politically correct about them won't change that.
     
  17. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

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    Preacherman,

    With all due respect, it doesn't sound like you are following th Golden Rule - treat others as you would have them treat you. We are all sinners, but it is our responsibility to strive to be better.

    Yes, the vast majority of the prison population may be incorrigible, but there are more than a few who do not deserve to be there. Either they are wrongly convicted (note recent DNA incidents proving innocence) or they are convicted of "crimes" that should not be crimes at all (like the above example of a startled home owner defending his wife and shooting the intruder a second time in the heat of the moment).

    If we actually intend to reform criminals into law-abiding citizens then we need to lead by example. A prison culture that accepts rape in prison will spill out onto the streets when the inmates are let out.

    As for the true criminals (admittedly the majority of the prison populace), they have rights too. A car thief should do time, but does not deserve to be raped.

    Rape is never justifiable.
     
  18. jnojr

    jnojr Member

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    Rape is not "accepted" in jails or prisons. It's just impossible to prevent 100% of the time. It's also actually very rare, from what I'm told.

    In California, at least, rape in a prison is a felony. Even consensual sex, in prison, is a misdemeanor.
     
  19. 20cows

    20cows Member

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    He wasn't justifying it, just acknowledging the fact that it happens, and though you try, you can't stop it. Like any other crime, all you can do is slow it down (make it more difficult to accomplish) and punish those you catch doing it.
     
  20. Shane333

    Shane333 Member

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    I've never done anything that would get me sent to prison.

    If, for some freak reason, I was unjustly sent there, I would request solitary confinement. I don't care if they have to stick me in some isolated cell in the basement with nothing more than scriptures to keep me company for a year or ten. I'd prefer that to being exposed to the general prison population.
     
  21. dave3006

    dave3006 member

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    Shane, you are a gunowner. Someday that will be enough. Your request for solitary ought to give them a good chuckle.
     
  22. Noctem

    Noctem Member

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    Rape no more.

    :fire: rape is rape. it is what it is and it cant be anything else. following that, rape is wrong in all its forms, angles, methods and so on. if you dont want someone inside your body with anything whatsoever, penis, stick, finger, tounge etc, and they are inside your body then that is wrong, regardless of SEX, race, LOCATION, (that means in or out of prison) and any other noun you can think of. This is not under any circumstances a justifiable or even condonable (sp) action. I despise rape and rapists, even if the victim was a male in prison. Dont give me a whole bunch of crap about why the rapists did it cause whatever the reason, none are good or sound enough to let an innocent be drawn into that messed up persons mind and actions. i could go on and on as im sure we all could. :fire:
     
  23. Mr. James

    Mr. James Member

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    There can be no justification for anything as manifestly evil as rape. End of story. Not even the most hardened criminal "deserves" to be raped.

    We can argue for days, pro and con, about the justice of judicially-ordered state-sanctioned homicide, and I'm sure we've all heard of defendants who "just needed killin'," but to suggest there can be any element of justice in anything as random and predatory as forcible rape is, frankly, sick.
     
  24. NavajoNPaleFace

    NavajoNPaleFace Member

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    submitted by Flechette:

    "Preacherman,

    With all due respect, it doesn't sound like you are following th Golden Rule - treat others as you would have them treat you. We are all sinners, but it is our responsibility to strive to be better.

    Yes, the vast majority of the prison population may be incorrigible, but there are more than a few who do not deserve to be there. Either they are wrongly convicted (note recent DNA incidents proving innocence) or they are convicted of "crimes" that should not be crimes at all (like the above example of a startled home owner defending his wife and shooting the intruder a second time in the heat of the moment).

    If we actually intend to reform criminals into law-abiding citizens then we need to lead by example. A prison culture that accepts rape in prison will spill out onto the streets when the inmates are let out."

    Flechette, although I respectfully accept your ideas that there are, indeed, some innocent people caught up in the justice system to chastize Preacherman, or any other person working in the cirminal justice system, is insensitve.

    None of the 'insiders' had anything to do with the inmate's original crime, the police investigation(s), the filing of charges by the Prosecuting Attorney, the lack of competent defense counsel, the decisions and finding of a jury, and the sentencing Judge.

    Those working the jails and prisons are simply trustees of those inmates and applicable laws and not those who decided the fates of those incarcerated.


    And, lest we not forget that at latest scientific and education guesses put less than 1/2 of one percent of ALL (city, county state, federal and military) inmates are completely innocent (roughly 1 in 200).

    No judicial system is, or ever will be, totally flawless or totally equitable. Human frailness prohibits a perfect record here, LOL.

    Anyway, when Preacherman eluded to inmates being predatory he is absolutely right. Not all....but surely the vast majority are. After all, the vast majority (and ALL crimes in many thoughts) of crimes committed on the streets involves victims and the term 'victims' clearly say that someone had to victimize them). 'Nuf said on that one.
     
  25. Shane333

    Shane333 Member

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    Dave3006,

    If gun ownership is all it's going to take to get a man thrown in prison, I have no intention of going. I'm not some macho super commando guy, but I have no intention of going peacefully if they're going to come for me when all I've done is honor the Constitution.
     
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