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Pro-gun Texas ACLU

Discussion in 'Legal' started by TequilaMockingbird, Feb 5, 2006.

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  1. TequilaMockingbird

    TequilaMockingbird Member

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    Law allowing guns in vehicles protects rights

    This is interesting. Scott Henson is a gun-owning ACLU guy who gets the big picture.
    Amen to that (although I'd quibble with his use of the term "gun violence"), and it's good (if a little bit wierd) to see the ACLU lobby in favor of last year's proposal to allow law-abiding citizens to carry guns in their cars. It ultimately passed.

    Even wierder was the spectable of some district attorneys - such as Harris County DA Chuck Rosenthal (Republican) - openly voicing their intention essentially to ignore the provisions of the law, and to continue filing unlawful gun possession cases against law-abiding Texans.

    Scott's work got noticed by Prof. Volokh over at The Volokh Conspiracy.
     
  2. Dannyboy

    Dannyboy Member

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    Is that the Texas ACLU position or the position of one man in the Texas ACLU?
     
  3. Maxwell

    Maxwell Member

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    If its the official position, I might actually think better of them.
    ACLU could probly make a mint fighting for gun rights.
     
  4. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I may stand alone but I'm not all that disappointed that the ACLU just stays out of firearms. The NRA is the big force in gun rights and the aclu takes care of the rest of the bill of rights. Just seems like its a more effective use of their funding to not get into guns and keep doing work in the areas where they're the big player.
     
  5. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Soybomb:

    The ACLU actively takes the position that the 2nd Amendment is a collective right that pertains only to state militias. In so doing, they declare themselves our opponents.

    That's a problem that goes way beyond merely dividing up the workload.
     
  6. Maxwell

    Maxwell Member

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    Im not happy with the ACLU because they tend to argue alot of stupid things... but I thinking of it this way:

    The problem I see is right now we've got alot of noisy folks doing their damnest to erase the 2nd amendment by any means possible. These types spawn new pieces of anti-gun legislation faster than our side can seem to knock them down.
    Because their side of the argument is popular with politicians, it dosnt take much push to get some new nonsense in motion.


    ACLU has a habit of picking up alot of cases that seem otherwise indefensable. Sometimes they win, often then dont, but the sheer numbers and annoyance makes politicians skittish of going up against them.
    Assuming they can be made to march in our direction, that cover fire helps to keep the enemy at bay while your other forces can do their work.
    Hell, they damn near killed Christmas. Im willing to wager that if their picking up our less winnable lawsuits and run that for our side, it would be alot easier for NRA and the rest to focus on more key issues.

    We can start attacking more important things like gun registries, ballistics libraries, "smart guns", NFA, and such. Instead of quaking in our boots every time a homeowner shoots a burgular.

    Now Im not a real fan of any organisation that would defend pedophiles or nazis... but at the same time Im not a democrat or liberal either. I accept any reasonable help thats going my way, if only so far as it takes me.
    The focus here should be what advances RKBA.
     
  7. ElTacoGrande

    ElTacoGrande Member

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    They don't "defend" pdeophiles. They just want to make sure that accused pedophiles get fair trials. Any of us could be accused of a crime and we all benefit from fair trials. They also want to make sure that after a conviction happens, that person still is treated in a fair way. That fair treatment, even for the worst convicted criminals, is what distinguishes our system from systems I would call "uncivilized". And they don't defend Nazis; they defend Nazis' right to free expression of their beliefs. A good chunk of my family was wiped out by Nazis 70 years ago, and I still support Nazis' right to peaceful expression of their views. Of course, I own guns so if those expressions ever become non-peaceful, and a direct threat to me, I'll be able to handle the situation better than my ancestors did, but as long as its peaceful, they should be able to say it.

    But I agree on the 2nd Amend issue. I will never support the ACLU until they start supporting the 2nd. They have some great lawyers who achieve some amazing victories. The 2nd amend movement often does not have such good legal help. If the ACLU lent us some of their legal firepower, it would be devestatingly effective, I can assure you.
     
  8. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    Bravo. Its the principle, not the immediate result of defending that principle. We are all much better off when individual rights are afforded to the less appetizing members of society. Nazis and communists espouse ridiculous ideas- all the more reason that the public hears those ideas and the outraged rebuttals that naturally follow.

    I wish the ACLU would get around to recognizing RKBA, if only because a society that depends on the State for protection is inherently predisposed to see individual rights as been less worthy of protection. If the state can decide how valuable your life is, how can they not also have discretion over your speech, religion, politics or lifestyle chocies?
     
  9. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    Fantastic, their actions are neutral however. Show me where they have worked against 2nd amendment rights. If I was opposed to any organization that didn't mirror 100% of my views on the world, well I would be opposed to probably every organization. I value the entire bill of rights and think they do good work on the whole, while not harming second amendment rights.

    http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14523res20020304.html

    While that might be a written position, it is nothing more than that. Until they act on that position in a negative way, I think they're throwing out the baby with the bath water.

    maxwell I'm surprised you think we need the aclu's help that badly. Its an organization with 500,000+ members, the NRA has 4.3 million. Thats actually what troubles me about the NRA, they seem like alot of bark but more concerned about getting people to renew with the promise of crappy merchandise than legal issues.
     
  10. TequilaMockingbird

    TequilaMockingbird Member

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    Excellent question. From Pack your pistola and hit the road we read:

    Scott Henson is the director of the ACLU's Police Accountability Project.

    I'm actually thinking of writing out a nice fat check to the Texas ACLU just because they lined up on the right side of this Second Amendment issue.
     
  11. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Both organizations are awfully selective in their defense of the nation's civil rights. Of the two, I'd say the NRA does the better, more comprehensive job. The ACLU's stated "interpretation" of the Second Amendment is leftist extremist through and through, which makes me doubt how seriously it takes the rest of the Bill of Rights.
     
  12. Maxwell

    Maxwell Member

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    The battle line for me is currently drawn at weather I can own a weapon or not. Its not just firearms for many US citizens, their down to weather they have a right to defend themselves at all.
    A blatent government violation of the 2nd amendment.

    I tried to buy a gun not too long ago. I got hit with paperwork, required training, waiting periods, and the local gun registry. Of course everyone wants to know why I need it and if I want a CCW here thats going to take even longer.
    My Grandfather owned several revolvers and rifles in his day. He openly bought and traded with his friends, and it was no ones business but his own.
    He was alive at a time when it would be possible to buy brand new full-auto weapons off the shelf.

    Now few people have a gun and we have record gun violence in the VI. These laws should have been easy to overturn, but their safely in place for the forseeable future and its never even been made a campaign issue.

    Does the NRA need help?
    I would say yes.

    NRA has membership and money, but it dosnt seem to be nearly as agressive as the ACLU has been. Theres something odd when a politician fears a lawyer more than a firearm...
    I think that means we've been stocking up on the wrong kind of firepower.:banghead:
     
  13. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    whether- a conditional statement

    weather- something that is forecast on the news

    Weatherby- a rifle manufacturerer
     
  14. longhorngunman

    longhorngunman Member

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    The ACLU at it's core is a Communist organization, period. The sooner this group is destroyed the better.
     
  15. TequilaMockingbird

    TequilaMockingbird Member

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    I just knew that someone would reflexively denounce the ACLU as communist. And so here is the cartoon that is on point. :neener:
     
  16. Maxwell

    Maxwell Member

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    That may be, but Im not interested in supporting their cause so much as weatherby the right circumstances they would come to support mine.

    There are worse things than communists in this world.
     
  17. tulsamal

    tulsamal Member

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    The ACLU is like the Sierra Club or any other organization. They are reflecting the views of their members. Considering how effective they often are in the courts, I've thought before that "taking over the ACLU" would be a very interesting goal for gun owners. If several million gun owners joined the ACLU and voted for their leaders based on the RKBA, it could be a VERY crucial move. I DO see them as an organization that SHOULD recognize the rights of gun owners as being a crucial counterbalance to an overreaching national government.

    They just need a bunch of new members to help them down that road!

    Gregg
     
  18. Igloodude

    Igloodude Member

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    And as tulsamal notes, if even one out of every eight NRA members joined the ACLU, it seems certain that they'd stop ignoring RKBA and proactively defend the 2nd alongside the 1st, 4th, and 5th. And then, of course, the members that don't like the 2nd would go off and make their own organization, leaving the ACLU with probably 600,000 members. :D
     
  19. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Yeah, go to their website - they constantly argue about Trotsky and the .223 for CQB in their forums.

    I love it when people use insults without knowing what the words actually mean - it's like 7th grade all over again.

    A smart person supports the NRA and ACLU and lets them both know it.
     
  20. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

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    The ACLU's "support of the 2nd amendment" is as assinine if they only supported "white men owning land" have the right to free speech/assembly/religion and the right to vote.
     
  21. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Member

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    True, it has allways spoken to their hypocracy (sp?) that the ACLU would be such a strong supporter of individual rights over the authority of the Government except on the issue of gun control. Mabey they thought that if minorities had guns they could stand up for their own rights.:rolleyes:

    It is nice to see that some members of the ACLU are waking up to the rights of ALL Americans, not just minorities and NAMBLA members.;)
     
  22. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Member

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    And I do realize that members of the ACLU might support the 2A, but their organization is decidely quiet when gun rights issues are going to court. If you don't say anything on an issue, then you don't support that issue do you.

    Liking an issuse is one thing, but supporting it implies that you are working to further its cause.
     
  23. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    The first thing a communist government would do is truck
    all ACLU and NRA activists off to the gulag.

    I don't always agree with ACLU (the Nazis had no business
    marching thru Skokie and NAMBLA has no right to aid and
    abet breaking the law on child rape) but they are not
    communist just because they defend the first amendment
    rights of communists, and nazis, and everyone in between.
     
  24. Maxwell

    Maxwell Member

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    Well, from what I know about the ACLU's history ((c)Wikipedia) They supposedly booted out communist ideals to focus on civil rights, since the two agendas dont exactly mesh.

    Its possible they are feeling out a new way to expand. Theres no shortage of "gun crimes" where people are wrongfully jailed or prevented from owning firearms. Theres no shortage of money here either, from lawsuits or memberships. The second amendment is about as clear as it gets. one just needs a dictionary and a few history books for a good argument.

    That would probly be a good poll question.
    If the aclu declared itself pro-gun, would you join?
     
  25. ElTacoGrande

    ElTacoGrande Member

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    Yes.

    They are effective. They have great lawyers and they fight hard cases. The NRA's lawyers (in my subjective opinion) seem more focused on defending the industry than they are on defending our rights. Do you think that the NRA would send its legal team in to defend someone who was posessing an unregistered MG? I don't think they would, but that is sort of like the ACLU sending in lawyers to defend the most extreme expressions of free speech, etc.
     
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