Probably Buying VEPR 7.62x54R - Talk Me Out of It!

[Adam123]

Well, as the title says, I am strongly considering the purchase of a VEPR chambered in the awesome 7.62x54R. I am familiar with all of the rifles that are chambered in 7.62x54R, but this one has really caught my eye. One huge downside to this rifle is the price of mags, mag capacity, and availability of the aforementioned magazines. The rifle is priced right around $1,150.00. Let me know of your thoughts and certainly do post if you have any experience with these rifles.

I talked to the importer and he said a couple of companies are working on higher capacity magazines for the 7.62x54R VEPRs (can't wait to see the price tag on these when they first hit the market). The current VEPR comes with two single-stack, 5-round mags and that is exactly what the rifle is setup to accept. These mags seem to be as long as the PSL mags, but only hold half the amount. If someone produces a mag that will accept, say, 10 rounds, would it have to be in a single-stack format to function on this rifle? If so, that would be a long magazine. Conversely, would a double-stack tapered down to fit the VEPR mag well work on the 7.62x54R VEPR???

Also, I do have suspicions that these are going to be quite rare (kind of like Dragunovs are right now). I really do hope that I am wrong as I'd like to see them catch on and have reasonably priced accessories. What are your thoughts?

Lastly, I'm not interested in a Mosin, being that already have a few. So, there's no need to suggest a Mosin as an alternative.

Thanks in advance for your replies.
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[Mudinyeri]

I had a Vepr in 7.62X39. It was a great-shooting rifle, just a little heavy for my taste. $1150 seems high but I'm not familiar with the value of a 7.62X54 vs. a 7.62X39. I had the opportunity to pick up a 54R for around $800 but passed for the same reasons you're questioning your purchase.

 

[Cosmoline]

On the contrary, I want you to buy it and come back with a detailed report! I've been eyeballing various semiauto 54R's for years. The PSL/FPK's are a seriously mixed bag. Some are good, some are importer-assembled disasters. There are some that look nice, but all are a bit light for the round and would not do well with my 200+ grain handloads.

These VEPR's appear to be RPK's on steroids, which would make them considerably stronger than PSL's (mere AK's on steroids). The early dope on these is positive, though everyone seems to be on backorder at the moment.

The extra pounds would do it good for 54R. Hopefully it would also be able to sustain a steady diet of heavy ball, which the PSL's cannot.

Some video shots--very well crafted!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_YsO_rQhUs

Whoompada-whoompada-whoompada

 

[Adam123]

Mudinyeri, I do have serious reservations about magazines - that's for sure. The one that I am probably going to buy comes with 2 10-round mags. That's not bad, but I'd like to, at least, see that they are available if I want to buy a couple more of them. I can't even find them for sale on any sites.

Cosmoline, I had a PSL and sold it on GB. It was an awesome rifle, but groups really opened up after five shots... quite disheartening. The good thing was that I broke even and didn't lose a penny on the transaction. So, I am glad that I owned one, but will never buy another unless I come across an amazing deal. I was also eyeballing the Waffen Werks AK54R, but that is, more or less, a cut down PSL. I really doubt that these VEPRs will have the same issues as their earlier counterparts. These things seem like the real deal and may just be the 54R auto-loader that I've been looking for. Thanks for the video. I just watched it a few hours ago. I am not sure of the diameter of that barrel, but damn, that is thick!... what a monster....

[Edit] If anyone know of these magazines being sold, please do post.
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[Cal-gun Fan]

@Adam: Don't the x54rs come with 5 rounders? I know the .308 ones come with 10s, but Atlantic told me the x54r comes with a 5 round magazine. The magazines also look like they will be very expensive.

It looks like a sweet rifle. For the price though? Ehh...If I was looking for an accurate rifle in 7.62x54r, which is a round that I love, but hate that there are few available and practical rifles in that caliber, I would get an M39 for the fraction of the price, and use the rest of the money to get a reloading setup for x54r and maybe even some 7N1 russian ammunition, as much of it as I could afford since it is becoming more and more scarce.

 

[fireman 9731]

I had a PSL and sold it. It was awesome in the coolness factor but not that fun to shoot, and not that accurate. I think the straw that broke the camels back on selling it was how much of a pain it was to clean after shooting surplus ammo. The whole appeal of shooting cheap ammo goes out the window after you clean it a few times. I pretty much had to detail strip it to clean it, the trigger group and everything. Its a whole lot more work than cleaning up a Mosin after shooting.

It chewed up cases and spit them out with such voracity that reloading was out of the question for me..... I lusted over one forever and when I finally got it, I was disappointed. I tried and tried but it was basically just a really loud AK that looked cooler and shot worse.

With that said, there needs to be a nice semi-auto x54 on the market and the VEPR might be it....

 

[Adam123]

Cal-gun fan, I have three Mosins and just bought my fourth. I don't need another Mosin, but would love to have a top-quality semi-auto in 7.62x54R.
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[Adam123]

@Adam: Don't the x54rs come with 5 rounders? I know the .308 ones come with 10s, but Atlantic told me the x54r comes with a 5 round magazine. The magazines also look like they will be very expensive.

Cal-Gun Fan, I found out from the importer that these indeed come with 5-round mags. The website that has these rifles made a mistake when posting the specs. That is a bit disheartening. I think a rifle such as this should come standard with 10-round mags.

This brings me to my next point. I talked to the importer and he said a couple of companies are working on higher capacity magazines for the 7.62x54R VEPRs (can't wait to see the price tag on these when they first hit the market). The current VEPR comes with two single-stack, 5-round mags and that is exactly what the rifle is setup to accept. These mags seem to be as long as the PSL mags, but only hold half the amount. If someone produces a mag that will accept, say, 10 rounds, would it have to be in a single-stack format to function on this rifle? If so, that would be a long magazine. Conversely, would a double-stack tapered down to fit the VEPR mag well work on the 7.62x54R VEPR???
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[MistWolf]

As the original post gives the 7.62x54 the fanboi title of "awesome", it's already too late to talk any sense

 

[Adam123]

As the original post gives the 7.62x54 the fanboi title of "awesome", it's already too late to talk any sense

I can buy 7.62x54R for $0.17 per round. With that ammo, I can shoot 1" groups (maybe less) at 100 yards with a Mosin Nagant. That is why I call it awesome. It's an unparalleled bang-for-your-buck caliber. If you disagree, I'd be forced to call you an idiot. There is not a comparable caliber priced anywhere near 7.62x54R. So, before you try to flame or insult someone, take your head out of your a$$, clear the cobwebs out of the unused regions of your brain, think for a few minutes, and then post a constructive reply. Thanks.

 

[Cosmoline]

Let's stay high road.

Besides, everyone knows 54R is awesome.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

As the original post gives the 7.62x54 the fanboi title of "awesome", it's already too late to talk any sense

Mature, buddy.

About the magazines: I personally wouldn't believe a word of it, Adam. To put it into perspective-how long have there been PSL's in the country? Longer than I've been alive, probably. And how companies make above ten round magazines for them (not Bren-gun hackjobs)? None.

There are a lot more people with PSLs than there are going to be with VEPR 54rs. I guess what I'm getting at is...don't count on there being anything besides factory magazines available.
I honestly would love a good semi auto in 7.62x54r. Maybe the VEPR will be it, but I want to hear a lot of information about it first. Accuracy reports, lots of testing, can the stocks be replaced, etc first.

 

[Adam123]

Cal-Gun Fan, I agree 100% and I've already decided to pass on the purchase, as much as I want one. That's not to say that I won't buy one in the future, but for now, this firearm is just too rare and uncommon. I really like everything about the rifle aside from the magazine issue. I'd be willing to settle for 5-rounds if they were priced reasonably, but from what I've seen, they are somewhere near $60.00 per mag. That is utterly ridiculous. Nonetheless, I will be watching out to see what happens with these VEPRs and will own one if a few factors change for the better. Thanks for all of your input, guys.
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[Cal-gun Fan]

Good choice for now, IMO. Right now, I think they're just too new-I don't think that anybody actually has one yet. In a couple of months, I figure there will be more information out about them, some reviews and accuracy reports, maybe some news on magazines (though I doubt that). If it turns out to be a rifle that can achieve somewhere around sub-MOA accuracy, It would be something to look into. However, I would like to see more parts and accessories available before I ever bought one. $60 for a 5 round mag is far to rich for my tastes.

 

[Mr.Barty]

Go find a mosin nagant rifle, buy several stripper clips, a few cans of surplus ammo to start you off and you've got yourself a piece of fun for the rest of your life.

 

[ifit]

next question is, will there ever be another shipment of veprs coming again to our shores? thats why i purchased a super vepr just in case, which i wanted for the longest time.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Go find a mosin nagant rifle, buy several stripper clips, a few cans of surplus ammo to start you off and you've got yourself a piece of fun for the rest of your life.

He already has several he said. Sometimes we all want a change of pace, and unfortunately there isn't that much out there for x54r.

 

[Adam123]

Mr Barty, I already have a few Mosins and am a huge fan of them. I had a distant cousin refer me to them when I was telling him about the PSL that I wanted and I've enjoyed them ever since. In my opinion, they are the best deal in firearms.

Ifit, you and Cal-Gun Fan represent the two parts of my brain that have been fighting each other over the past couple of days. You both make great points, but in the end, I'd rather be without one given the current circumstances, rather than have one with parts/accessories being so rare and hard to find. If the magazine market starts to look a lot better, I'll buy one, but not until then.
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[MistWolf]

I can buy 7.62x54R for $0.17 per round. With that ammo, I can shoot 1" groups (maybe less) at 100 yards with a Mosin Nagant. That is why I call it awesome. It's an unparalleled bang-for-your-buck caliber. If you disagree, I'd be forced to call you an idiot. There is not a comparable caliber priced anywhere near 7.62x54R...

Cheap? Certainly. 1 inch groups @ 100 with a Mosin Nagant? With cheap surplus ammo? That would be very exceptional. Unparalleled bang for the buck? Well, the bang is cheap at least. All considered, the 7.62x54 is an ok round and can be fun to shoot. Awesome? No. It's body taper while good for extraction and it's rimmed case simplifies headspacing, both complicate designing a box magazine. The rim also complicates loading the magazine. If the rim of the upper cartridge falls behind the rim of the lower, it can prevent it from feeding.

There is no denying that playing around with an odd-ball round like the 7.62x54 can be fun and the Finns proved it's combat effectiveness against the Russians. But it really doesn't do anything particularly well, nothing well enough to lift it from "fun & interesting" to "awesome"

 

[Mr.Barty]

In that case, look around on some auction sites or gun shows for a SVT-40 if your looking for something different.
It uses a detachable magazine and if you can't find any, you should be set as it can also use mosin nagant stripper clips to load it.

 

[Cosmoline]

But it really doesn't do anything particularly well, nothing well enough to lift it from "fun & interesting" to "awesome"

Sure it does. It's been around since my great grandfather was a little boy, and it's served in just about every war since. Plus it hits plenty hard, is a lot of fun to handload and throws a ferocious fireball out of the carbines.

Yes rimlock can be irritating, but you don't have to be the most efficient to be awesome.

 

[SDC]

It would be interesting to see someone import the "Berkut" (Golden Eagle), in either .308 or 7.62x54; these are made by Tula KBP, and aren't based on the AK or RPK, but do look sort of interesting. The 7.62x54 version will accept SVD mags.

 

[amd6547]

I am wondering if you could convert VPER to use PSL mags....

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

That would be interesting to see and might get people off of the fence about buying one, me included.
Still...I want to hear accuracy.

 

[Adam123]

MistyWolf, I'll tell you something else that I find awesome - your untiring drive to convince me (a complete stranger) that 7.62x54R is not awesome. It's the equivalent of me trying to convince you that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches suck after hearing that you find them to be delicious. The entire premise of your argument is pointless. I really don't care. I still think 7.62x54R is awesome after reading your passionate posts, and I will consider it to be awesome if you respond with 500 more posts, full of technical data, all endorsed by the President of Awesome Ammunition Board of America International. Seriously, don't you have anything better to do?

Mr Barty, SVT-40s are cool, but more collectible than modern, functional shooters. All of the SVT-40s that I see look to be trashed, worn, and battered. I'd love to get one in good shape, but doubt I'd be willing to pay the asking price.

SDC, the Berkut would be cool, but one would still be stuck dealing with the hard-to-find SVD mags. I've not seen them for less than $80.00 per mag.

Amd6547, your idea is reasonable, but that would probably entail a lot of work. I am sure that the receiver would have to be cut in order to accept the larger mag due t the VEPR coming in a single-stack configuration. I wouldn't want to be the first to try it.
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