Problem with Misfires

[BMood]

Hi everyone, so I’m pretty new to reloading and I’m having problems with misfires. I’ve only loaded and fired 3 batches of 20 so far but a good amount of them didn’t go bang, (about 4 out of 20) and all show light primer strikes.


I’m loading .223 and I’m priming on the ram of a lee challenger using Remington #7.5 small rifle bench rest primers. Tried a few different brands of once fired brass and cleaned all the primer pockets out. As far as I can tell everything measures normal and all the rounds fit into a head space gauge. After the misfires of my first batch I really took my time priming the second and tried to work the kinks out. Same problem. I tried chambering and firing some of the rounds again in case the primers weren’t seated fully at first but still no bang, I even tried them in a different rifle. At first I thought maybe I was seating a few too deep but I read a lot of people saying that you really can’t set them too deep as long as their set fully don’t worry about the .003-.005 specs... So the third batch I set them in pretty hard and they all looked a little too deep. I just got back from the range and the first 4 were all misfires before I gave up, so I guess they were definitely too deep. I thought I had a pretty consistent feel setting the primers of the first two batches and some of the ones that didn’t go off don’t look like they’re set too deep at all so I’m pretty confused. Any help or advise would be really appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[troy fairweather]

do they fire on the 2nd shot. or at all.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Sounds confusing to me as well and I have been reloading for many years. It sounds like you have been meticulous about loading them and troubleshooting. You could try some different primers. It would be unusual but still possible that yours are bad.

 

[higgite]

No offense intended, but being new at it, do you know how to use a headspace gauge or cartridge gauge? Just "fitting into" the gauge isn't all there is to it. The reason I ask is I'm wondering if the the problem cartridges' case shoulders are set back too far. And what rifles are you shooting them in?

 

[BMood]

They still don’t fire on the second shot, and I’d like to think that they’re bad primers but I just started reloading... it’s gotta be something I’m doing wrong. I’m thinking about getting a hand primer so I can get a better feel than the ram. Maybe that will help.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

You have me confused also, .003-.005" isn't seated too deep and shouldn't break the primer pellet in the primer. Breaking the primer pellet into pieces from seating will make them not go off at all.
Did the cases that you reloaded have crimped in primers and did you chamfer the primer pockets before you seated new primers?
You said your new to reloading, I'm wondering if you know what a properly seated primer is supposed to feel like.
But at the same time, from what you said, it seems like your wondering the same thing and checked that theory out and still had a problem.
A primer strike on an unfired primer will look like a light strike.
What brand of primers are you using? What rifle are you using? (bolt vs AR type) I'm wondering if the extractor is holding the case in place instead of the shoulder of the case and the firing pin isn't hitting hard enough to set the primer off. (AR type of rifle). That's a real WAG!, (wild ass guess). I suspect most AR type rifles fire this way anyways.
Take a machinist pick or dental pick and dig around behind the extractor claw to see how much crap is built up behind there.
But I would think you would be getting stove pipes if that were the case. (failures to eject).
Very strange.
I'm no AR expert so let us know how this turns out. If this is bolt action then I'm totally weirded out.

 

[BMood]

No offense intended, but being new at it, do you know how to use a headspace gauge or cartridge gauge? Just "fitting into" the gauge isn't all there is to it. The reason I ask is I'm wondering if the the problem cartridges' case shoulders are set back too far. And what rifles are you shooting them in?

No offense taken, I thought I might have been pushing the shoulder down a bit too far so I backed my die off a bit for the second batch but still had the same exact problem. Is there a more accurate way to set the die than just “touch the ram plus a quarter turn”?

And I’m using a savage axis bolt action that’s never had problems with light primer strikes before.

 

[Dudedog]

Welcome to THR lots of great people here!

I tried chambering and firing some of the rounds again in case the primers weren’t seated fully at first but still no bang, I even tried them in a different rifle

Usually if they are not seated deep enough they will go bang on the second try, and you tried that and a different gun as well that tends to make me think
Bad primers
1. Bad from the factory
2 Contaminated somehow

(maybe primers going off and powder not?? not likely but possible I suppose)

I suppose it is possible you could seat them to deep but not likely IMO.
(With my Lee hand primer I don't think it's possible)

If you have some of the loaded rounds left I would pull the bullets, dump the powder and just try seeing if the primers go off.
Get some different primers (diff brand or different lot of the same flavor) and try some in the same cases.
If they all light problem was the primers if not it is possible I suppose that there could be an issue with brass, not likely but it is possible somehow the pockets got messed up when you cleaned them.
If no go with different primers in that brass try a different piece of brass, maybe just resize/dprime it prime (don't clean it) and see if that works.
(or maybe try your existing primers in some different brass first whichever is easiest)

I know you are having issues at the moment but don't let it get you down, if the gun fires factory ammo ok it is not that hard to make good reloads that work 100%.
Something funny is messing you up, you just need to chase down what it is, then you can fire off 1000s of reloads and look back and say oh I remember one time I had the bad batch of blank that drove me bleep nuts when I first started reloading.

Those are just my thoughts, as I have never had an issue with things going bang I don't know if the above is the best plan of attack or not.
Hope you get it worked out.

Please let us know what it was.

 

[troy fairweather]

some photos may help to. if your in northern nj i could help you out if anything is needed, i am just over in ny.

 

[Walkalong]

Is there a more accurate way to set the die than just “touch the ram plus a quarter turn”?

Absolutely. One way is to use your headspace gauge to set your sizer.

It is hard to seat primers so hard you damage them to the point they do not work. It's hard to seat primers to deep.

It is easy to not seat primes all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket where they deaden the firing pin blow trying to seat farther and fail to go off.

99% of misfires in reloads are primers not seated fully.

When you gauge the sized brass does the case head go below the lower cut in the gauge?

This one is too high (Fired case). Anyway, after sizing the bottom of the case head should be at or below the top ledge and at or above the lower cut. Only a few thousandths.

Set your sizer so the brass fits the gauge properly, and doesn't just fall in fully.


The Sheridan gauge on the right also has a middle "cut". If the case head matches up with it after sizing, you're just about perfect.


Just about right. Near the bottom cut.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I just watched a video on using that press. Are you possibly contaminating the primers while you put them in place?
Skin oil, sweat, or case lube can cause duds. Try wearing a latex glove while putting the primer in place, or use a set of tweezers. Just prime a few cases and try test firing them without a bullet or powder.

 

[Dudedog]

Sort of off topic

The Sheridan gauge on the right

Makes my LE Wilson gauge look homely

I was happy with it now that picture has spoiled it for me

I like my Lee hand primer, it gives a nice feel for getting them seated right and not to many $.

I like to wet tumble my brass may not shoot any better but being nice and clean it makes me .
I hand prime while watching TV so not really a waste of time. (wear safety glasses when priming/loading)

If you have to pick up individual primers to feed the press you would probably like the hand primer.

But no reason you can't make good ammo priming on the press.

 

[BMood]

I just watched a video on using that press. Are you possibly contaminating the primers while you put them in place?
Skin oil, sweat, or case lube can cause duds. Try wearing a latex glove while putting the primer in place, or use a set of tweezers. Just prime a few cases and try test firing them without a bullet or powder.

I thought that could be an issue so the second batch I made sure to never touch the primers with my hands and cleaned any lube away.

 

[JO JO]

I have questions
1. is the brass crimped ? if so it will feel like you are really pushing hard to seat the primers and I may not be seating them deep enough , what brands of brass are you loading
2. does this happen with factory ammo in your rifle

the more info you give us the better , if you are having repeated misfires something is wrong

 

[BMood]

These might be hard to get a good look but this is a round that didn’t fire in my case gauge, I thought it looked ok but maybe not, now that I’m zooming in with my camera they do look a little below the line.

 

[Walkalong]

Makes my LE Wilson gauge look homely

I was happy with it now that picture has spoiled it for me

Not only are they very nicely made, but they are also cut to SAMMI spec in the diameter so they check rounds diameter as well as headspace. If the loaded round fits the Sheridan gauge it most likely fits any SAMMI spec chamber. The Wilson is cut big in the diameter and only really checks headspace. Of course if it is grossly over diameter it will fail the Wilson.

Have you seen the slotted Sheridan gauges?

 

[BMood]

I have questions
1. is the brass crimped ? if so it will feel like you are really pushing hard to seat the primers and I may not be seating them deep enough , what brands of brass are you loading
2. does this happen with factory ammo in your rifle

the more info you give us the better , if you are having repeated misfires something is wrong

They’re not crimped, I know because the first brass I tried to reload was and I crushed a few primers trying to get them in before I figured it out. So far I’ve reloaded Fiocci and Remington brass, and the rifle I’m using has never had a problem with factory ammo. After my misfires today I fired a few factory through it no problem.

 

[JO JO]

could you also take a picture looking straight down looking at the head stamp

 

[Walkalong]

they do look a little below the line.

Hard to see, but yes, they do look a little low.

Have a dial or digital caliper? Use it to check the depth of the case from the top ledge vs the lower ledge.

 

[stillquietvoice]

Is there a possibility that your firing pin is damaged, not protruding far enough from build up, brass from primer stuck in firing pin hole...
You might try cleaning bolt . It may help.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I thought that could be an issue so the second batch I made sure to never touch the primers with my hands and cleaned any lube away.

Sounds like you have trouble shot everything minus the primer itself.
On the full length sizing thing, remove the firing pin from your rifle and slowly size the brass smaller until the bolt closes freely on the empty cartridge. When you do this, it's a good time to clean the bolt and remove the possibility of light primer strikes caused by a dirty bolt.
If you do a search on setting your resize die for a bolt action, you will find a lot better explanations than mine.
The chamber gauge is best if you want your reloads to fit in any gun.

 

[BMood]

could you also take a picture looking straight down looking at the head stamp

 

[Dudedog]

Have you seen the slotted Sheridan gauges?

Yes, sigh, after I already bought the Wilson, but may upgrade sometime.
Any new ones will be Sheridan....

OP
I can't tell for sure but I agree with Walkalong it looks maybe a little low.
(but then I am getting blind in my old age)
Just for fun drop a factory round in your gauge to compare it to, since the factory stuff is shooting ok.
Maybe setup you die to try to match that. (assuming the factory round gauges correctly)

 

[Englishmn]

If you wet tumble let the brass dry longer.

 

[stingsdontit]

How do you clean your cases? Just by the looks of the primer in your picture showing the head stamp, it looks like your firing pin is getting a good strike. Is your flash hole clear? Sounds silly, but I get little bits of walnut grounds in mine. If your flash holes are clear, I would try different primers.