yesterdaysyouth
Member
well i have loaded on a 550 and i've loaded on a pro1000....
i own a pro1000...
YMMV...
i own a pro1000...
YMMV...
progressive reloader ; lee or Dillon
- Thread starter sandy4570
- Start date
- Status
SnWnMe
Member
I use a Lee Pro 1000. I got it for $125.00. I load for 38, 357, 44sp, 44Mag, 45ACP and 45LC. It's easy to use. Watch the primers, watch them drop one, "feel" it go in and you're good to go.
Everytime I add a caliber to handload it costs me
about $25 for the dies
$15 for the turret or toolhead as DIllon calls it
$15 for the shellplate (if needed)
Total of: $55 or thereabouts.
If I want to buy a new press to set up alongside my Pro1000 that's about $80.00. Another shell carrier (that carousel thingy)is $36.00
It costs much much more to add a caliber with Dillon. I think I can buy a new Lee press for the same money.
However, if I were to get a Dillon, I'll get a 650. The 550 as popular as it is, does not auto index. I know a few folks who got a double charge because of this "feature". An auto indexer like the 650 makes it difficult to double charge. Odds are you are savvy enough to catch this. But it does happen to the best handloaders. JMHO.
Everytime I add a caliber to handload it costs me
about $25 for the dies
$15 for the turret or toolhead as DIllon calls it
$15 for the shellplate (if needed)
Total of: $55 or thereabouts.
If I want to buy a new press to set up alongside my Pro1000 that's about $80.00. Another shell carrier (that carousel thingy)is $36.00
It costs much much more to add a caliber with Dillon. I think I can buy a new Lee press for the same money.
However, if I were to get a Dillon, I'll get a 650. The 550 as popular as it is, does not auto index. I know a few folks who got a double charge because of this "feature". An auto indexer like the 650 makes it difficult to double charge. Odds are you are savvy enough to catch this. But it does happen to the best handloaders. JMHO.
JA
Member
Back in the late 1980's before I bought a Lee Pro 1000 I had a couple friends that had Dillon presses. I tried them out before buying the Lee. I loaded on a Dillon model 450,1000,and whatever the model name was of the 1st generation SDB. All functioned fine but the lack of features and high price was a real turn off. Now the 1000 was a class act as it would do everything the Lee would plus some. But with a $800 price it was pretty much out of everyone's budget that wasn't a commerial reloader or owned a Lear jet.
I have never seen why the cast pot metal parts of a Dillon are so much more superior to the molded plastic parts of a Lee. Also I have noticed over the years that Dillon owners that have never owned a Lee talk bad about them. Even the ones that did own a Lee before getting a Dillon always blame the poor quality materials(plastic) or the poor design of the Lee as to why it didn't work for them. But none ever will admit the truth to what was the real problem with them being unable to get the Lee to work correctly. Which was their lack of patience and/or their mechanical ineptitude.
I have never seen why the cast pot metal parts of a Dillon are so much more superior to the molded plastic parts of a Lee. Also I have noticed over the years that Dillon owners that have never owned a Lee talk bad about them. Even the ones that did own a Lee before getting a Dillon always blame the poor quality materials(plastic) or the poor design of the Lee as to why it didn't work for them. But none ever will admit the truth to what was the real problem with them being unable to get the Lee to work correctly. Which was their lack of patience and/or their mechanical ineptitude.
MoNsTeR
Member
No need for bashing-by-exaggeration, on either side of the fence. Dillon frames are cast aluminum, same as several Lee presses. Most of the small parts are steel. Now the Lee Auto-Prime, that's pot metal (though I like it just the same).
David Wile
Member
Hey Monster,
I am not a fan of Lee products in general, but I am in agreement with you wholeheartedly about the Lee Auto-Prime. It may be cheap metal, and I am on my second one after the first one broke, but I prefer it to my RCBS hand priming tool any day. I also think Lee products have a legitimate place in the reloading community and should not be ignored. I just tend to have a preference for Lyman, RCBS, and Hornady products generally.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
I am not a fan of Lee products in general, but I am in agreement with you wholeheartedly about the Lee Auto-Prime. It may be cheap metal, and I am on my second one after the first one broke, but I prefer it to my RCBS hand priming tool any day. I also think Lee products have a legitimate place in the reloading community and should not be ignored. I just tend to have a preference for Lyman, RCBS, and Hornady products generally.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
sandy4570
Member
Thank everyone for the input .Now I will have to do some more research and cost comparison.
Lloyd Smale
Member
"Why are many Dillon advocates frequently so obnoxious? Always positively JUMPING to tell you they own one and how anything else is not worthy and how if you were cool like them you'd have one too."
because most of us have allready been down the road. I had a 1000 and a loadmaster. Bought the loadmaster cause i thought the 1000 was junk and found out the loadmaster was worse! I now have 5 dillons and wouldnt buy any other. There may be somethings that a couple other presses do better but overall you cant beat them. Plus there backed up by the best warantee of anything anywhere. I wonder how many Lee presses are sitting in closets unused because people just gave up trying to get them to load reliably. I dont remember a single loading session with one that didnt require some kind of dinking around with it. I know a couple of my square deals have over 100000 rounds on them and there still going strong. There starting to get a little loose but dillion has already sent the new bushings no charge. ther still working fine and i havent bothered to install them yet. They will even recondition a press for free even if you bought it used!
because most of us have allready been down the road. I had a 1000 and a loadmaster. Bought the loadmaster cause i thought the 1000 was junk and found out the loadmaster was worse! I now have 5 dillons and wouldnt buy any other. There may be somethings that a couple other presses do better but overall you cant beat them. Plus there backed up by the best warantee of anything anywhere. I wonder how many Lee presses are sitting in closets unused because people just gave up trying to get them to load reliably. I dont remember a single loading session with one that didnt require some kind of dinking around with it. I know a couple of my square deals have over 100000 rounds on them and there still going strong. There starting to get a little loose but dillion has already sent the new bushings no charge. ther still working fine and i havent bothered to install them yet. They will even recondition a press for free even if you bought it used!
I contend that those that can't run a Loadmaster are the same people who refuse to follow directions and have the attitute that they know better becasuse "I've been loading for 20 years, etc". Mike Dillon is a brilliant marketer - he "over engineers" and then promises to replace parts for those people who don't use equipment properly and then is able to charge up to three times more than is necessary for the service. I have nothing at all against Dillon, it's just that I don't need it because I'm one who can follow directions and as a result - have a Loadmaster that does, and has worked perfectly. Futhermore, I guarantee that I can produce more output than any 550 and absoultely match any 650.
I've had a Loadmaster running flawlessly for years now and have well over 30,000 round through mine with one (1) replacement of a primer slider that cost $1.00 and was because it was NEVER cleaned prior to that. How can this be? I set the dies, powder measure and primer seating depth properly - I use full strokes of the handle and it just keeps ticking.
I've had a Loadmaster running flawlessly for years now and have well over 30,000 round through mine with one (1) replacement of a primer slider that cost $1.00 and was because it was NEVER cleaned prior to that. How can this be? I set the dies, powder measure and primer seating depth properly - I use full strokes of the handle and it just keeps ticking.
Yeah following directions is one thing, and I whole heartedly agree that is paramount to things working. But, I have watched too many people experience nothing but trouble with Lee. I have never experienced such good customer service from reloading companies. Lee had never replaced one of thier pot metal auto primer levers that wore out. I solved problem and go the RCBS hand held.
I have been loading on a 550 for a long time. The only complaint I have ever had is changing from small to large primers, and it is not that hard. I solved that problem by loading only loading large primer carts. Or as if I had the space just buy one and dedicate it to small primers.
As long as you follow directions things can work as advertised. Testosterone is hard to over come!
I have been loading on a 550 for a long time. The only complaint I have ever had is changing from small to large primers, and it is not that hard. I solved that problem by loading only loading large primer carts. Or as if I had the space just buy one and dedicate it to small primers.
As long as you follow directions things can work as advertised. Testosterone is hard to over come!
JA
Member
Uncle Don,
I see from your post that you have run into the same type guy I traded with to get his "non working" LoadMaster. While talking to him about trading for his LoadMaster he said the same thing I have heard from many former Lee,now Dillon owners. "Lee's are piece of crap,I've been loading for 20+ years, I don't need to read no stinkin' directions,etc"
Talking to him for a while the part that I didn't understand is that he wouldn't spend 10 mins reading directions but thought nothing of spending hours on the Dillon 1-800 number while someone talked him through fixing the problems he had getting his Dillon to work.
I don't know that "Testosterone is hard to over come!" the correct way to express it.
It is more like Pride and Vanity are hard to over come.
Which explains the many "in the closet" Lee owners.
I see from your post that you have run into the same type guy I traded with to get his "non working" LoadMaster. While talking to him about trading for his LoadMaster he said the same thing I have heard from many former Lee,now Dillon owners. "Lee's are piece of crap,I've been loading for 20+ years, I don't need to read no stinkin' directions,etc"
Talking to him for a while the part that I didn't understand is that he wouldn't spend 10 mins reading directions but thought nothing of spending hours on the Dillon 1-800 number while someone talked him through fixing the problems he had getting his Dillon to work.
I don't know that "Testosterone is hard to over come!" the correct way to express it.
It is more like Pride and Vanity are hard to over come.
Which explains the many "in the closet" Lee owners.
I started with a Lee turrent press, powder measure, etc. and mostly wore it out over 10 years. I then purchased an older Dillon press (450B partially converted to 550B) and promptly kicked myself for having waited so long to get a real progressive reloader. Dillon makes good equipment that is much higher quality than Lee in my experienced opinion. I looked at the Lee progressive presses and wasn't impressed; they'll work, but you have to work hard at it and be prepared to replace parts that wear out regularly. I was tired of Lee's parts wearing out by that time.
Dillon's service is good. They refurbished the older press I'd bought and paid shipping back to me. The press has a very solid, strong feel that is a pleasure to use. You could do much, much worse than buy a Dillon press; especially the 550B.
It sounds like the Hornady progressive presses also work pretty well and I'd look at them in addition to Dillon. I was looking at the Hornady progressive press when I found the used Dillon. Hornady makes good equipment that doesn't wear out easily. I have a hornady powder measure (and some dies) and it works well.
The best thing I can say about Lee presses is they are lower cost and generally will work if you are willing to tweak/monitor them closely. Lee dies are OK-to-good IMO and I have several sets.
If you want to just relax and reload alot of high quality ammo, pass on Lee unless money is really tight. If money is tight, get Lee equipment and accept the compromise up front and avoid using other presses (that way you won't know what you're missing).
Dillon's service is good. They refurbished the older press I'd bought and paid shipping back to me. The press has a very solid, strong feel that is a pleasure to use. You could do much, much worse than buy a Dillon press; especially the 550B.
It sounds like the Hornady progressive presses also work pretty well and I'd look at them in addition to Dillon. I was looking at the Hornady progressive press when I found the used Dillon. Hornady makes good equipment that doesn't wear out easily. I have a hornady powder measure (and some dies) and it works well.
The best thing I can say about Lee presses is they are lower cost and generally will work if you are willing to tweak/monitor them closely. Lee dies are OK-to-good IMO and I have several sets.
If you want to just relax and reload alot of high quality ammo, pass on Lee unless money is really tight. If money is tight, get Lee equipment and accept the compromise up front and avoid using other presses (that way you won't know what you're missing).
Lloyd Smale
Member
being an electical lineman by trade for 25 years you learn to follow instructions to the tee or get hurt improvising! That was the first thing i found wrong with the lees. There wishy washy intructions that came with the press. I also have a little engineering background. Spent a couple years at Michigan Tech. and am no dummy. Bottom line is you put a 650 or a 550 along side of a loadmaster and to me anyway theres no comparison and as far as comparing a square deal to a pro 1000 its almost a joke. Sure the cost is a justification. Thats why when i was starting out i bought the lees in the first place. But now my theroy is that ive upgraded into the presses i will keep for life and just wish i would have bucked up and paid the money from the git go. I have nothing against lee products I love there inexpensive little priming tools, about 3/4s of my dies are lee and there six cavity molds are a bargin in my opionion. Most of my buddys who started loading started on lee presses at my recomendation. There starting kits for first time loaders are a bargin and if you find you dont care for loading your not out much. I have two manual lee turnents and and old O press still set up that i use occasionaly and they have been great for the purposes i use them. My little lee hand presses have sized 10s of thousands of rounds and i dont go to camp without one. But ill stick to my opinion that if your ready to step up to a progressive press open up the wallet and buy a dillion or a hornady. Youll never regret it.
Lloyd Smale
Member
one last thing. Id like to see what the respose to how many use lee progressives woud be on the frontier shooting board. thats where Taffin Taylor Wilson Merbach Pierce Paco and alot of other guys that have done more shooting and reloading then most of us have hang out and see what they use. I know some of them personally and allready know the answer. Id bet you have that post up for a good long time before youd get anyone to recomend a lee progressive. Ok im all done ranting now its out to the barn to load some ammo. Now if i can only figure out how to tie my shoes.
JA
Member
HSMITH,
The above is from one of my eailer posts.
At the time late 1980's the pre SDB model was made only in 38/357,9mm,45acp,and 44 mag. You were pretty much screwed with one as it used special size dies that fit only it.
The 450 which was the pre 550 model at the time also had a limited number of cartridges it would load about a dozen. Due to both models not having a case feeder and the 550 not having auto indexing they were not a progressive presses but more semi progressive presses.
Since the late 1980's I have used Dillon 550,650,and 1050 presses. The 550 has auto primer and powder but no auto indexing and case feeder. So is still way over priced being just one notch above a turret press in features. The 650 is a really good machine if you can afford the $200 case feeder on top of it's $450 price without dies and $65 cartridge conversions. As with the 1000 the 1050 is a high dollar machine but is a class act.
As far as the " Taffin Taylor Wilson Merbach Pierce Paco and alot of other guys".
How many of them actually paid for a Dillon? Paid the price a regular guy would pay? How many won one at a shooting match?
I see auto-indexing (or lack of) brought up again and again about the Dillon 550B. Unless you have a automatic case feeder, the auto indexing isn't that important. It is easy and natural to do in the 550B loading process. Unlike the Lee turrent press where you have to turn the turrent with the dies and powder measure attached, the 550B indexing is turning the plate that holds the cases a quarter turn to the next detent position. It takes very little pressure and just is not a big deal on an extremely versatile press.
I'm not against auto indexing so long as the movement is smooth, but it shouldn't be a hard requirement unless you have a case feeder.
I'm not against auto indexing so long as the movement is smooth, but it shouldn't be a hard requirement unless you have a case feeder.
Maxinquaye
Member
It's not about convienence, it's about safety.
It's damn near impossible for me to throw a double charge on my Loadmaster. Not the case on the 550.
It's damn near impossible for me to throw a double charge on my Loadmaster. Not the case on the 550.
Lloyd Smale
Member
maxinquaye you make the only real valid point agianst a 550 a rooky can get in trouble on one with double charges. JA i do know for a fact that at least a couple of the guys listed bought theres the same way i bought mine. I dont know of any off them that would take a lee progressive if it were given to them. I know i wouldnt. Well maybe a loadmaster because i could get enough for it selling it to at least cover the shipping. I work hard for my money and dont waste it on something just because it has a name on it. Like i said id be more then happy with a hornady progressive there a good machine. But saving a couple hundred dollars to buy a lee isnt worth the stress. Id rather sell a gun and anti up for something good if it came to it. Just my opinion and you know how much an opinion is worth. Buy what you want and so will I. But dont let anyone tell me im a snob for buying a dillion or an idot because i cant get a chevette to work like a corvette. Check around on the forums and youll find alot of people that know me and have visited and ask them how many people they know that load more ammo or cast more bullets then me and ill bet you wont get many answers. Ill just keep smiling and loading on stuff that i know works.
Maxinquaye
Member
Lloyd, I don't think anyone is arguing that the Dillon presses are higher quality. Whether or not they are a good value for the price is a question only the individual can answer.
The Lee preses can work fine; there are many of us who use them to load thousands of rounds of quality ammo. They represent, IMO, a great value for the money, being feature laden and safe.
The comment I made was regarding the attitiude many Dillon owners have. It's fine to let other people know that you're pleased with and recommend your Dillon. It's the people like Rockstar who continually make snobbish remarks that put a bad taste in my mouth.
The Lee preses can work fine; there are many of us who use them to load thousands of rounds of quality ammo. They represent, IMO, a great value for the money, being feature laden and safe.
The comment I made was regarding the attitiude many Dillon owners have. It's fine to let other people know that you're pleased with and recommend your Dillon. It's the people like Rockstar who continually make snobbish remarks that put a bad taste in my mouth.
Maxinquaye said:
It's not about convienence, it's about safety.
It's damn near impossible for me to throw a double charge on my Loadmaster. Not the case on the 550. END QUOTE
Auto-indexing isn't going to prevent carelessness while reloading. I'm not sure a progressive press should be the first press someone buys; lots of operations happening at once.
I hope the powder measure that comes with the Lee progressives has improved. They used to come with the auto-disk. Using it with the Lee turrent press, I managed to create at least a dozen squib loads before I found it wasn't compatable with finer powders. Only 3 squib loads were fired before I pulled the bullets on 500 rounds of pistol ammo (lots of fun
) to find the remaining squibs (no powder). I then bought a hornady powder measure to use with finer powders. My Dillon measure doesn't have a problem with finer powder either.
The good and bad points of Lee and Dillon have been posted in this thread so the original poster should have enough information without this turning into a flamewar.
It's not about convienence, it's about safety.
It's damn near impossible for me to throw a double charge on my Loadmaster. Not the case on the 550. END QUOTE
Auto-indexing isn't going to prevent carelessness while reloading. I'm not sure a progressive press should be the first press someone buys; lots of operations happening at once.
I hope the powder measure that comes with the Lee progressives has improved. They used to come with the auto-disk. Using it with the Lee turrent press, I managed to create at least a dozen squib loads before I found it wasn't compatable with finer powders. Only 3 squib loads were fired before I pulled the bullets on 500 rounds of pistol ammo (lots of fun
) to find the remaining squibs (no powder). I then bought a hornady powder measure to use with finer powders. My Dillon measure doesn't have a problem with finer powder either. The good and bad points of Lee and Dillon have been posted in this thread so the original poster should have enough information without this turning into a flamewar.
JA
Member
As Maxinguaye said I am not saying that Dillon's are not well made and work fine.
The point I was trying to make about 550 not having auto indexing is that it only has automatic priming and powder charging. I admit that turning a shellplate is a lot easier than turning the turret on a turret press. But for what the 550 does is it worth more than almost three times the price of a turret press?
Kinda like paying several thousand more for the fully loaded model car when the cheaper model has all the features you want on it but the cup holder. But the cup holder only comes on the fully loaded model.
The Dillon 650,1050,and both Lee presses are true progressive presses. Which to me means no inserting cases or primers,working powder measure handles by hand,or turning shellplates by hand.
Progressive press = insert bullet,pump press handle,and out falls a loaded round.
Loyd,
I have read several gun magazine articles about writers getting free presses to test and write about. Then being given them or keeping them after being offered at a price they couldn't turn down. Also articles about cowboy action and other types of matches giving away Dillon presses as prizes. So when you mention about top prize winning shooters and magazine writers all using Dillon's I have to take that with a grain of salt from what I have read.
In the last 10 years I have been moving steadly to replace all my powders with Accurate Arms powders due to cheaper price and most being better metering ball powders. I have never had a problem with fine grained ball powders in the 5 auto disk measures that I have. The powders that give me problems are flake powders when throwing 3 grains or small charges. Due to the flakes stacking in the cavity at all angles there would be a lot of air space and great varience in charge weights. This really gave me fits when I set up my Pro 1000 for 25acp. I tried several flake powders but when the cavity in the disk is only slightly larger around than the indivigual flakes of powder 1/2 grain variences in charge weight are normal. But a 1/2 grain is way too much when the powder charge is only 1.3 grains. After much trail and error I finally found that the flattened ball shaped grains of WW-231 gave consistant powder charge weights.
The point I was trying to make about 550 not having auto indexing is that it only has automatic priming and powder charging. I admit that turning a shellplate is a lot easier than turning the turret on a turret press. But for what the 550 does is it worth more than almost three times the price of a turret press?
Kinda like paying several thousand more for the fully loaded model car when the cheaper model has all the features you want on it but the cup holder. But the cup holder only comes on the fully loaded model.
The Dillon 650,1050,and both Lee presses are true progressive presses. Which to me means no inserting cases or primers,working powder measure handles by hand,or turning shellplates by hand.
Progressive press = insert bullet,pump press handle,and out falls a loaded round.
Loyd,
I have read several gun magazine articles about writers getting free presses to test and write about. Then being given them or keeping them after being offered at a price they couldn't turn down. Also articles about cowboy action and other types of matches giving away Dillon presses as prizes. So when you mention about top prize winning shooters and magazine writers all using Dillon's I have to take that with a grain of salt from what I have read.
In the last 10 years I have been moving steadly to replace all my powders with Accurate Arms powders due to cheaper price and most being better metering ball powders. I have never had a problem with fine grained ball powders in the 5 auto disk measures that I have. The powders that give me problems are flake powders when throwing 3 grains or small charges. Due to the flakes stacking in the cavity at all angles there would be a lot of air space and great varience in charge weights. This really gave me fits when I set up my Pro 1000 for 25acp. I tried several flake powders but when the cavity in the disk is only slightly larger around than the indivigual flakes of powder 1/2 grain variences in charge weight are normal. But a 1/2 grain is way too much when the powder charge is only 1.3 grains. After much trail and error I finally found that the flattened ball shaped grains of WW-231 gave consistant powder charge weights.
Lloyd Smale
Member
"The good and bad points of Lee and Dillon have been posted in this thread so the original poster should have enough information without this turning into a flamewar"
Good point enough said by me.
Good point enough said by me.
jdkelly
Member
Uncle Don, how fast can you load?
Uncle Don,
I had no idea that the Load Master was as fast as the Dillon 650. How fast can you load on your Load Master.
Respectfully,
jdkelly
Uncle Don,
I had no idea that the Load Master was as fast as the Dillon 650. How fast can you load on your Load Master.
Respectfully,
jdkelly
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked