Prohibited Persons Beliefs

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Bruno2

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I hear different degrees of who should or shouldn't be barred from possessing a firearm. I have some sort of liberal views in this realm and would like to hear from others.

I personally don't think any non violent crimes should ever keep anyone from owning a gun. Also I feel like people who have served their time or finished their probation should have another chance.

Anybody have any personal preferences about current laws? Be sure to include a brief statement defending your stance.
 
Ideally (or idealistically, if you prefer), I feel they shouldn't be on the streets if they can't be trusted with a gun. There are many other ways to kill, if that is their desire.
 
I personally don't think any non violent crimes should ever keep anyone from owning a gun. Also I feel like people who have served their time or finished their probation should have another chance.

Ideally, I agree with this. If our justice system wasn't so messed up, and stopped letting violent people out of jail before they ate actually rehabilitated, I would agree. Unfortunately our justice and penal systems would rather move out violent criminals to make room for people with less serious offenses.
 
Drug offenders fit my list of people incriminated that shouldn't necessarily be prohibited either. That silly question on the 4473 about being a habitual MJ user is just nonsense. Makes me wonder if they were watching reefer madness or something silly like that when they decided to put that on there. If that is really something to be concerned about then why not ask questions about alcohol use?
 
Also I feel like people who have served their time or finished their probation should have another chance.

The flip side of that is that people already get too many chances in our system. Upon being released from prison, over half are put back in jail within three years.

Our problem is what Outlaw Man said. We shouldn't release people who are a threat to society. But we do, so we have to have this conversation every other week about who should be prohibited and who shouldn't.
 
My opinion is that any politician who help legislate, author, draft, supported or voted in favor of any piece of anti-gun legislation should be barred for life from owning any firearms. Violent felons should also be barred, but they should be locked up anyway.
 
I don't know how they managed from our days as colonies starting in the 1600s, to Declaration of Independence in 1776, until the GCA of 1968 added lifetime prohibitions.
In fact before 1968 also created the FFL system anyone could mail order a gun to thier home, or buy one at the local hardware like other tools.

Even after adding lifetime prohibitions government left a method to regain rights, but then decided to defund it to make it impossible.



There is clearly people I would rather not have firearms. I however do not trust government to not misuse or abuse discretion in determining who can be armed.

From a historical perspective it becomes almost comical to have the government which is supposed to be deterred by an armed population, (which is the purpose of the 2nd according to the documents and letters of the founders), getting to decide what part of the population is armed and requiring government permission to buy a gun.

He is okay, and he is okay, no not him we don't want to be deterred by him.
Nor do we want to be deterred by anyone who does this, or that, or has demonstrated a willingness to act in this or that manner.

It is a mockery of the intent of the 2nd.
And only can be excused in modern times because people don't actually believe in the real purpose of the 2nd anymore, and instead guns are owned purely for self defense from common criminals, animals, use in pest control and recreational activites. Which is understandable, but not why we actually have the 2nd Amendment that so many people like to mention.
Because if people really acknowledged legally or intellectually that something was owned to deter something else, letting what is supposed to be detered get to decide who owns that which will deter it is contrary to logic. Even if they believe that the purpose of the 2nd is outdated, it seems unConstitutional to allow such a situation without changing the 2nd Amendment which the founders put there with that understanding of its purpose.


Then you consider expansions of prohibiting offenses, attempts and desires to include just people on the 'no fly' list and other discretionary things. As well as the numerous people that are not even prohibited who get denied, or have to go through a hassle after being falsely denied when trying to purchase a firearm.
They have the ability to revoke any individual's ability to buy firearms, prohibited or not, just by making it so they will get a denial through NICs.
I don't think the founders in America even before breaking away from the British would have approved of a system that required every citizen to check with the government in England each time they wanted a firearm, even if it could be done quickly.
 
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I view the loss of civil rights as part of the punishment for the crime. I don't care if securities fraud has nothing to do with the 2A or voting or anything else - the loss of gun rights is part of the punishment for a crime the felon committed willingly, knowing full well the degree of punishment if convicted.

It is what it is. I have no sympathy for a guilty person losing their rights. It's not that they cannot be trusted with a gun - it's just another way to punish them. Even though the original intent was to probably to reduce 'gun crimes' by enacting the GCA.
 
So Stumpers you believe that criminal punishment should be for a lifetime?

I believe the GCA was to take the first steps into disarming the people. So here we have examples of generations being indoctrinated into being comfortable with people losing these rights for a lifetime.

I personally don't see it this way b/c I know it is just another way to disarm. As time goes on more criminal offenses are added to the list yet none are taken away. Pretty soon we will all be guilty of something if they get their way.
 
Whether or not a man is effectively rehabilitated has little, if anything to do with why they are released from prison. People are released from prison because the system has people they deem to be more dangerous that they think are a higher priority to keep incarcerated. The idea of literally holding everyone until they are READY to be reintegrated into society is certainly ideal, but it would exponentially increase the number of people we hold. A lot of them pretty much forever. Sentencing laws and guidelines are not written around the timeframe required for effective rehabilitation at all.

The Constitution says that no man shall be deprived of life or liberty without due process of law. Convicted felons, by definition, have had their day in court. And I might agree with changing the wording of the law to restrict only violent felons, (right now, as convicted felons, Martha Stewart and Bill Clinton can't own guns,) but overall, I have no problem with a felony conviction carrying life-long consequences. The expungement process is there for those who want to have there rights restored. (Although some parts of it are broken. I understand that right now it's pretty much impossible to get a federal felony expunged, you have to try for a pardon.)

In any event, fighting for felons to be able to keep and bear arms is FAR down on my list of battles to fight.
 
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I view the loss of civil rights as part of the punishment for the crime. I don't care if securities fraud has nothing to do with the 2A or voting or anything else - the loss of gun rights is part of the punishment for a crime the felon committed willingly, knowing full well the degree of punishment if convicted.

It is what it is. I have no sympathy for a guilty person losing their rights. It's not that they cannot be trusted with a gun - it's just another way to punish them. Even though the original intent was to probably to reduce 'gun crimes' by enacting the GCA.
So, what other rights are you willing to strip from non-violent convicted criminals in order to properly punish them? How 'bout the right to a speedy jury trial? 'Cause, you know, if they were already convicted of some white-collar crime, that means they are probably guilty of anything else anybody accuses them of, right?. So, why bother even having a trial?

Yes, I believe that there are individuals that have proven that they should not have access to firearms. But, those people should also not have access to other deadly objects, like cars, knives, bats, rat poison, gasoline, and broken glass. And the only way to deny access to those objects is to remove the dangerous person from society.
 
Even convicted violent felons who have done their time, IMO, should retain the right to keep and bear arms in their own home and at a range. Prohibiting them from owning firearms doesn't actually do anything; if their intentions are pure, then they will not commit crime anymore. If their intentions are not pure, they will acquire a gun anyway and do what they want.
 
Geoff, that applies to ALL men. We ASSUME all men to be worthy of all of their rights. We START with the presumption of innocence. The difference is, convicted felons have done something to demonstrate that they are NOT a person who deserves the benefit of the doubt.
 
It's not a question of benefit of the doubt, it's an issue of living in a free society. As was suggested by others, if a man (or woman) cannot be trusted with a gun, why should they be released from prison at all?
 
I don't think "anybody" should be barred from having a gun.
In fact, I think it should be mandatory that everybody does.
Bad guys will still get guns anyways...but if every good guy had one too, there would eventually be a lot fewer bad guys.
 
Then the solution seems obvious: decriminalize whatever nonviolent actions are putting people in prison, namely recreational drug possession and use. From the prison statistics that I last read, that should free up more than half the cells occupied, so the most violent and unrepentant inmates can stay behind bars.
 
I can go with that. The other chunk of the solution is to close the border, ret scan and DNA check every illegal alien in the prison system, and send them home. That will free up the federal prison budget by more than 20%, and some border states more than that.
 
Then the solution seems obvious: decriminalize whatever nonviolent actions are putting people in prison, namely recreational drug possession and use. From the prison statistics that I last read, that should free up more than half the cells occupied, so the most violent and unrepentant inmates can stay behind bars.
Getting rid of "Life in Prison" and just enact the death penalty at that point would go a long way to freeing up cells and not needing my tax dollars spent on housing, feeding, clothing and medical care for this kind of person too.
 
There are a lot of different ways to become a prohibited person that aren't being touched on. Let's say someone is going through a bitter custody battle or divorce or any life changing scenario. Let's also say their ex is on the losing side of the fight (the ex knows there are firearms in the house), calls the cops and says they are suicidal. I've been a LEO for close to a decade, I have seen this scenario play out a dozens of times. After the person is involuntarily committed they lose their gun rights. It'll cost thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to have them restored (not to mention most likely years in the backed up court system).

It's a broken system. I personally think there should be (free) ways to have your rights restored once you have proven that you are no longer a threat to society or yourself.
 
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There are a lot of different ways to become a prohibited person that aren't being touched on. Let's say someone is going through a bitter custody battle or divorce or any life changing scenario. Let's also say their ex is on the losing side of the fight (the ex knows there are firearms in the house), calls the cops and says they are suicidal. I've been a LEO for close to a decade, I have seen this scenario play out a dozens of times. After the person is involuntarily committed they lose their gun rights. It'll cost thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to have them restored (not to mention most likely years in the backed up court system).

It's a broken system. I personally think there should be (free) ways to have your rights restored once you have proven that you are no longer a threat to society or yourself.
Makes sense.
A friend of mine lost his rights because of a "FALSE" claim of misdemeanor Domestic Battery. It was the same type situation. Divorce. Wife just made up a bunch of stuff.
 
Makes sense.
A friend of mine lost his rights because of a "FALSE" claim of misdemeanor Domestic Battery. It was the same type situation. Divorce. Wife just made up a bunch of stuff.

It's a scary thought, if someone knows how to play the system correctly you can lose your livelihood and property.
 
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