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Proper Gun Dealer Etiquette?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Hold My Own, Mar 20, 2010.

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  1. Hold My Own

    Hold My Own Member

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    So I just arrived back from my gun dealer and I'm not sure what to make of this, but there was a situation going on that doesn't seem like it's too uncommon that may have had an uncommon result. Let me paint the picture.

    I was walking to the door from outside of the gun store, and I see one guy ahead of me walking in with a long case, and another guy getting out of his car going in as well.

    The guy with the case made his way to the counter and I walked in going about my own business waiting for someone else to assist me. One of the employees tells me he'll be right back so I go to browse for a minute. I walk over to the other counter, and the two guys I saw walking in were there so I figured why not since I was interested in what was in the case. So the guy opens his case since he's there to sell some guns. A scoped Ruger Mini-14 and a Winchester Marine 12 gauge.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, the 2nd guy that went into the store before me but after the guy selling the guns asks if he's there to sell them in which he responds "yeah." The dealer makes an offer ($200 on the shotgun, and $300 for the Mini Ruger 14) and the guy says he'll pay him $350 for the Mini Ruger 14. After that, the first employee came back to help me with what I was there for. All of a sudden, you hear "Are you guys together?" They tell him they're not together, and the dealer just goes off with a "You know what, I'm just going to have to ask you to leave. Sorry."

    What?! Now I understand where the guy was coming from, in the sense that he could be trying to boost the price but c'mon. If that's what they're trying to do, then wouldn't you just let it go? You clearly didn't want it.

    And aside from that whole ordeal, I'm trying to buy 5.56 for my new AR which took 5.56 and .223 that I'd gotten somewhere else. I ask for 6 boxes of Winchester 5.56, and he comes back with 3 boxes of that, and 3 of Brown Bear .223 trying to "convince" me that they're the same thing. I tell him respectfully that I'd appreciate just the 5.56 and he has the nerve to get an attitude. "Listen, they're the same thing. It'll work, I promise."

    Now if I would have had a .223 barrel in my AR-15 and no knowledge of the difference in the rounds, I'd probably have no hands to type this.

    </rant over> I'm not sure, but I don't think I'll be going back to this place and it sucks because they have the lowest prices around. Maybe I'm over reacting?
     
  2. Myles

    Myles Member

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    I'd say the dealer was correct on both calls.
     
  3. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    If I were the dealer, I wouldn't put up with that in my store either.
    I may have just told the guy who kept offering more to leave and not the one trying to sell the guns. It was bad manners and etiquette on his part for sure. There's just some things you don't do. It was an insult to the shop owners.
    Now if they couldn't come to an agreement and the guy left, then by all means meet him out in the parking lot and try to get yourself a deal, but don't try and start a bidding war in front of the guy. I'd have kicked someone out too.
    But hey, maybe that's why I'm not a business owner.
     
  4. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    Only a jerk gets between a dealer and a customer transaction in the dealers store. The dealer would have every right to ask a jerk to leave .

    I have yet to see any .556 rifle damaged by shooting .223 in it , nor have I seen one that would not function just fine using it. The difference is minimul , but if it is an issue for you, than certainly stick with what you are comfortable with.
     
  5. Mags

    Mags Member

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    WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! I have never seen an AR damaged from 5.56 in a 223 chamber or even seen a pic on the net of damage. Now in tight bolt guns in 223 there might be damage.
     
  6. 52grain

    52grain Member

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  7. Mags

    Mags Member

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    SAAMI this SAAMI that. I have seen that a hundred times but it means nothing in the real world. Show me a damaged AR form shooting 556 in a 223 chamber. I wonder how many thousands of times a day 5.56 is put in a 223 chamber without and negative impact on the gun?
     
  8. NMGonzo

    NMGonzo Member

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    I would have offered 300 for the marine shotgun.
     
  9. Hold My Own

    Hold My Own Member

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    Of all the AR's I've seen in .223, it's says to not shoot 5.56 through them. That's why I went with the 5.56 in the first place. If you could show me something that says otherwise, then I'll be happy to take your word for it.

    It's not that I'm comfortable or uncomfortable with it. It's just stated that you shouldn't so I don't.

    That was my problem with it too. There's no way he knew what gun it was going in so it raised an eyebrow when he told me it was the "same thing." That's why I just asked if I could specifically have the 5.56, and have that be the end of it.
     
  10. nofishbob

    nofishbob Member

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    I thought the SAAMI warning was 5.56 in a .223.

    The OP is concerned about .223 in a 5.56.

    They use the same bullets, and the .223 is a lower pressure round.

    Always buy what you're comfortable with, but worrying about .223 in a 5.56 chamber is probably not something most people would do.

    Bob
     
  11. murdoc rose

    murdoc rose Member

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    yea dealers don't like that at all and I understand why, If your the guy bidding try to talk to the guy more privately and if he agrees go outside.
     
  12. bubba15301

    bubba15301 Member

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    .223 will work fine in a 5.56
     
  13. Hold My Own

    Hold My Own Member

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    I wasn't worried about firing a .223 through the 5.56. I was just a little thrown off since I was buying 5.56 and he was trying to sell me .223 and trying to tell me that they were the same thing without knowing what type of firearm I was going to fire them through. Why couldn't he just give all 5.56 like I asked for?
     
  14. Vonderek

    Vonderek Member

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    The OP wanted brass cased Winchester 5.56 and the clerk was trying to sell him steel cased Brown Bear .223. Sorry but it's not the same thing. If he wants the Winchester why should he buy any of the Brown Bear? Let someone else who thinks it's all the same buy the Brown Bear.
     
  15. nofishbob

    nofishbob Member

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    Like I said, everyone, including the OP should buy what they really want to buy.

    I did not try to say that the OP should accept the Wolf steel cased ammo that the clerk was hawking, only that it was generally considered safe to fire .223 ammo in a 5.56 rifle.

    I got the impression that safety was a concern when the OP wrote:

    ".....I'd probably have no hands to type this."

    If I got the wrong idea, I apologize.

    Bob
     
  16. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    I agree with the dealer on both counts.
     
  17. wishin

    wishin Member

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    Hold My Own, the issue if using 5.56 in a .223 chamber has been argued here ad nauseam. You're right, as are the people that hold the opposing view. There is a very remote possibility of a problem occuring, but the probabilty is pretty slim. If the ammo manufacturers felt it was real problem, their lawyers would more than likely have them imprint a disclaimer on each and every 5.56mm cartridge (even if it would be too small to read:uhoh:).
     
  18. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    Federal's take on the 223 vs 556 in PDF.

    And I vote the dealer being right on both counts.
    Ain't nobody ever accused me of being well-mannered, but sounds to me the customers were pretty damn rude.
     
  19. tkopp

    tkopp Member

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    I run a pawn shop. Not a swap meet. If you want to make a deal, I suggest a swap meet or a gun show. Any transaction that happens in the store should make the store money, else the store goes out of business. Then you'll *have* to sell your guns yourself without the convenience of an always-buying shop nearby that, coincidentally, will also supply ammunition and carry a wide inventory of shiny new-to-you toys.

    I'm not the counter monkey in the story, but I completely get where he's coming from.
     
  20. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    That marine shotgun is beautiful.
     
  21. Bubba613

    Bubba613 member

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    The only problem I see is the dealer was too nice. I would have been much more colorful.
    and the OP is wrong about the .223. If he wanted only brass cased that would be a different matter.
     
  22. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    The external cartridge dimensions of .223 and 5.56 are the same, so either will chamber in either chamber. The 5.56 chamber spec dimensions are slightly larger than .223 dimensions to aid chambering in a dirty gun. Also the pressure spec for 5.56 is slightly higher over .223. However, the AR action is plenty strong enough to handle either. The statement ".223 ammo is identical to 5.56 ammo" is therefore not strictly true, but a safety issue... a bit of a stretch IMO. If your .223 gun is weak enough to blow up shooting 5.56, you don't want to shoot it at all, since it is just a matter of time until you get a hot .223 round... they are not that different.

    As far as the wheeling and dealing... well, that is why I don't sell guns to gun shops, or trade in cars to car dealers, etc. It is very easy to beat what a dealer will offer in a private transaction, even if you have minimal patience. It is bad etiquette to make an offer in that exact situation, yes, but not every newbie is going to know that or think about it when his eyes light up with the potential of a "great deal" in front of him. I've seen people sell guns for some asinine prices in my favorite shop, and I would have liked to make an offer, but I value my relationship with that dealer, so I don't.
     
  23. Logan5

    Logan5 Member

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    The offering on the Mini seems rude to me, but I'd be annoyed by the ammo thing as well. I like to walk into a store with money, and exchange it for exactly the goods I'm looking for, which I will describe with reasonable exactitude, in plain english. If I want Russian .223, I will ask for it and not "6 boxes of Winchester 5.56."
    If you asked for Glaser Safety Slugs and the clerk brought you some Remington Golden Sabers and some Speer Gold Dots, would you be annoyed? If someone is going to tell me it don't matter because it's all the same, it better be Joan Jett.
     
  24. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I'm not as educated on the subject of the 5.56 vs .223, having not owned one. However, nothing annoys me more than asking for one thing and having a salesman try to steer me in a different direction. If I ask his opinion, fine, but if I ask for something in particular, just tell me whether you have it or not. I'm asking for a reason.
     
  25. Zoidberg523

    Zoidberg523 Member

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    I love how everyone is jumping down the OPs throat as if he were concerned about firing the 223 through his rifle. He was just educating a dealer on the differences - a dealer that seamed not to care. Aside from that: If the OP wanted 5.56, that's what he ought to get from the dealer - not 223.

    I can understand where the other shop assistant was coming from (as it regards the gentleman's offer on the other man's rifle), though he should maybe have been a little less curt. After all, it is a customer: If you allow customers to buy guns from other customers instead of you, then you will indeed go broke. However, you will also go broke if you are rude to other customers. Who is to say that, had the shop assistant politely pointed out that they cannot have that kind of transaction in the store, that the other gentleman wouldn't have spent that same money on one of the dealers guns? He was obviously in the mood to buy a new firearm... Just a thought.
     
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