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Proper Way to Polish Throat on 1911

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Smeg, Aug 28, 2007.

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  1. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    I have a 1911 that has a sharp lip at the point where the barrel ramp makes the transition into the chamber, and it causes some rounds to get hung up when the slide returns to battery.

    I think it's this lip is because the mouth of the brass is buggered up a bit on the bottom when the jam occurs.

    I had annoyingly frequent jams when I first purchased it, and after a 600 rd break-in period and replacing the factory magazines with Chip McCormick mags, they were reduced by a large amount. However, I still have about 1 jam every 16 rounds or so, and it's always in the manner I previously described.

    I've read enough to know that using any kind of power tool would be a bad idea, but I haven't found much in the way of describing how to do it with your finger and a very fine grit sandpaper. Do you rub side to side? In and out? About how long does it take? Should I use some sort of polishing rouge? Any other tricks in the technique?

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2007
  2. Mad Magyar

    Mad Magyar Member

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    I recommend a competent gunsmith...It will not cost that much...The problem with do-it-yourselfers is taking too much off & weakening the underside....
    After it's finished, should handle your ammo needs other than FMJ....
     
  3. BigG

    BigG Member

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    The case could also be hanging up on the breech face or extractor so don't go to work without knowing that you are correcting the problem.
     
  4. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    The extractor isn't the problem, I've already verified that. Bringing it to a competent gunsmith costs money, and I'm confident I can do this myself.

    Can anyone answer the questions in my original post?
     
  5. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    You rub in and and out in the direction of cartridge travel. If you look in Kuhnhausen he points out how it is essential that you not move the location of the bottom of the lip left or right (looking into the chamber). I am pretty sure my terminology is incorrect. It is also important that you not round the edge as it is supposed to act as a tip over point for the cartridge. It should not be sharp, but neither should it be soft/round/melted. I would err on the side of less round and more sharp. You could start with 600 grit sand paper.

    What make/model 1911 is this? Most barrels come pretty clean from the factory. Have you tried to test feeding with the extractor out of the gun?

    There are factors besides the barrel ramp that can cause ammo to hang up on the lip so I would not assume that it is the whole problem. Can you show us a photo of the gun with the slide locked back look down at the barrel and frame ramp?
     
  6. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    Thanks, adweisbe.

    I have 2 1911's, both full size Springfield Loaded models: one is the newer black stainless model, the other an earlier production model from 1999 (before they went to ambi-safeties and the ILS gizmo). The newer black stainless one is the one causing trouble.

    I removed its extractor and replaced it with the extractor from the 1999 one, and it still did the same thing. Slide failed to completely return to battery, approximately half the length of the cartridge extended out of the chamber, and the rim of the cartridge was secured underneath the extractor. I did not try it totally without an extractor, though.

    Further, the sharp lip I describe on the barrel of the black stainless version is no where to be found on the barrel of the one from 1999, which has a smooth transition from the ramp into the barrel and no sharp edge to speak of.

    Thoughts?
     
  7. JoeHatley

    JoeHatley Member

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    I used a cloth and some Flitz on mine.

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure I accomplished much, it's always feed fine, but it sure cleans up easier.

    Joe
     
  8. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    My thoughts are always to wait and see what 1911Tuner has to say, but if I had to give it a go...

    http://newforum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=248480&postcount=2
    Since you have two barrel ramps to compare and you can see a difference (where I think there should be no remarkable difference) then you have probably located a problem spot.

    When you say the rim of the brass are you talking about the mouth of the case where it meets the bullet? Are you using wadcutter or hollow points or plain old ball?
     
  9. Detachment Charlie

    Detachment Charlie Member

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    DREMEL -- Full Speed, 80 grit abrasive wheel or stone, press really hard. Ramp should turn blue just before you grind all the way through. Then, go to the gunsmith & have him install new barrel and polish the feed ramp.
    Hey, everybody else here has done it.:neener:
     
  10. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    Plain old ball is all I shoot, sometimes reloads in my older one, but not in the black stainless since it can't even feed ball reliably at the moment.

    When I say the rim of the brass, I'm referring to the part that the extractor grips against the breech face.

    As far as trying it without the extractor as you and BigG have mentioned, will that yield a different result from trying it with an extractor I know to be functioning properly? If so, I could give that a shot. I assume this would be done by locking the slide back then dropping the slide stop to feed a round rather than shooting it without the extractor, right?

    It may bear mentioning that when a failure to return to battery occurs, it is easily rectified by partially pulling the slide back and letting it slam forward again to give the round a second tap to enter the chamber. Would this be more indicative of a possible problem with the breech face or a possible problem with the throat?
     
  11. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    My mother once told me to be avoid people like you :).
     
  12. Mark whiz

    Mark whiz Member

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    It might be in your best interest to call Springfield, explain the situation to them. They really seem to go out of their way to take care of issues and would probably fix it at no charge, maybe even polish up things real nice for you too.
     
  13. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    I want to learn to do this myself, though. I don't think this is a problem beyond my abilities. I just need a little advice getting started.
     
  14. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    The extractor is a fitted part so there is no performance guarantee when dropping in an extractor from another gun.

    I am having trouble understanding how the top of the barrel ramp could bugger up the rim of the case.When do the two come in contact?

    If you can recreate the jam hand cycling with the extractor then it is worth checking if you can recreate the jam by hand cycling without the extractor. It is possible that it won't show up with hand cycling. As for shooting without the extractor, I am not sure if that is what 1911Tuner meant. You should be able to hear and feel the difference between rough feeding (overcoming a lot of sudden sharp stem bind ka-chunk) and smooth feeding.
     
  15. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    I'm sorry, I meant mouth when I said rim in my original post. It has been edited accordingly.

    I will try hand cycling again without the extractor.
     
  16. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    If the top corner of the barrel ramp...throat...is sharp, then a little rounding and polishing will help...but that doesn't sound like what's causing your problem. The mark just below the case mouth indicates a 3-Point Jam, and that's caused by the bullet nose impacting the barrel ramp too low, and pushing the barrel forward. If it has a distinctive "Ka-Chunk" sound and feel as it feeds...more pronounced on the top two rounds...that's your problem.

    Be very careful if you polish the top corner of the barrel ramp. Remove VERY little material.

    You may be able to cure it with a different magazine design...and maybe not. It depends on how far out of spec that your feed ramp is. Switching to a gradual, late release point may do the trick. See if you can borrow a factory Colt 7-round magazine. 7...round. Pictured below is the difference.
    The two outer magazines have the lip design that you want to try. The center mag is like the McCormick.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    proper way to Polish your throat?
    [​IMG]

    +

    [​IMG]

    :neener:

    Whats one word in the english language that changes its meaning when capitalized.... Polish ( as in ethnicity/nationality) and polish ( as in to make shiney!)
     

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  18. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    Har har :p. You're supposed to capitalize significant words in a title, goober.

    Thanks for the info, Tuner. I didn't realize there was that much of a difference between McCormick and Colt magazines. I know you specified 7 round, but do you think a Colt 8 round might do the trick as well?

    The "Ka-Chunk" you described was most certainly present when I was using the Springfield OEM 7 round magazines, and switching to the McCormick afforded an immediate improvement. I don't have access to a Colt magazine, so would it be wise for me to go ahead and pony up the dough for a couple, or would it hurt to try and round off the top corner of the barrel ramp first?

    What about bending the feed lips on my McCormick magazines to the shape of the Colt feed lips?
     
  19. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    No.

    Won't work.
     
  20. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    just having my own personal laugh. i walked into almost the same situation about polishing a car
     
  21. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    OK, here's the deal...

    I was able to acquire a mil-spec 7 round magazine with the little tit on the follower and the feed lips as you described. I used new cartridges this time instead of the same ones I have been using that were all chewed up. The gun still jammed in the manner I described, but the mouth of the casing was not damaged in any way.

    Thoughts?

    I just realized I completely forgot to try cycling it without the extractor. I'll give that a shot when I get off of work.
     
  22. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Mil-spec or actual USGI magazine? The term "Mil-Spec" has become a catch phrase, and doesn't guarantee that it's the genuine article.

    The full-tapered GI magazines sometimes require a little adjustment for the release timing. Easy to do if you've done it enough...but tough to get right if you're not experienced.

    The "hybrid" type magazine combines the gradual release of the GI magazine and the timed release of the wadcutter-type mag...but slightly later.

    The undamaged case indicates that the magazine did away with the hard 3-Point Jam...which solves the main problem. If you can push the slide into battery with the stoppage, it's probably a matter of extractor tension, or a weak mag spring. Remove the extractor and see if the gun feeds smoother.
    If it does...tweak the extractor.
     
  23. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    Would you mind elaborating on tweaking the extractor? I know I've read somewhere that this can be done by hand by placing part of the extractor in the extractor slot and bending it one way or another to loosen/tighten it. Is there a better way to do it without a tool specifically designed for adjusting extractor tension? Should the fulcrum for the bend be closer to the hook, middle, or base of the extractor?

    When I'm function testing without the extractor, should I release the slide by hand, or drop the slide stop?

    *I took some pics of the jam last night, I will post them after I get out of a meeting in about an hour.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2007
  24. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Smeg

    Smeg Member

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    Thought y'all might like to know, problem solved.

    I took out the extractor, banged it a bit with a hammer to reduce the tension, and it works wonders now.

    I never did try cycling it without the extractor, but I did notice that the rims of the jammed cartridges were chewed up pretty good.

    Thanks for the help.
     
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