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prove me wrong

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Nicodemus38, Nov 16, 2009.

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  1. Nicodemus38

    Nicodemus38 Member

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    ammo shortage is the word of the daits fun to look at ammunition from factory offerings and what you can roll at home yourself. here is an interesting look.

    30-30 remington 150 gr soft point core lokt 20 round box, 14.99 before tax

    150 gr spcl bullet, 100 @ 21.99 .2199/1
    30-30 remington bulk case 100@ 28.99 .2899/1
    remington primers 6 1/2 small 1000@ 30.99 .03099/1

    roughly .54079 cents for a round minus cost of powder.
    roughly .7495 cents per round loaded from the factory during anual sale at the local super outlet hunting store.

    a difference of .20871 cents per round to use for powder. or a difference of
    4.1742 dollars to purchase powder for the first 20 rnd box of reloads you make.



    also at the local super chain, it costs 86 cents,non sale, for a single round of 230 grain fmj 45 acp from umc. the bullet and case for that round using remington components is 114.95for bullets and cases using the price per 100
    at cabellas.
    the box at the store holds 250 rounds @.86 each, for a total of 215 dollars before tax. the discrepency of 100.05 dollars to allow for remington to pay for primer, powder, and assembling it.

    question, is it really logical to assume that their is an actual shortage of ammunition if i can buy the scarce components that the factories are claiming cant be made fast enough for assembly into loaded ammo by said factories for sale to general public?y, yet this is interesting to compute.
     
  2. John E.

    John E. Member

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    Isn't the shortage the result of folks buying all the ammo they can as soon as it hits the shelves?
     
  3. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    You forgot to include the initial ~$500 setup cost for reloading equipment, and also the time involved to do the work of reloading.

    Also, your local shop is quite the rip off, Ammunitiontogo.com has American Eagle 230gr FMJ .45acp. $194.95 for 500 rounds. Factoring in the $10 shipping, that's ~$205. Or .41 cents a round, less than half of the .86.
     
  4. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    TDK - You can get a fairly complete functional setup , minus dies, for about 100. It won't be top of the line, but it will reload your ammo for you.
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Does your time have any value? Mine does. The low cost and slow speed reloading didn't work out in my mind. I tried it for a while but the hours spent for the return I got wasn't worth it.

    It was fun to learn about reloading that way but it's pretty inefficient.
     
  6. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Demand for raw components does not equal demand for finished ammo.

    But most places, it's just as hard to get reloading components, particularly PRIMERS, as it is to get ammo right now.
     
  7. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    just a couple of critques

    bullets are a good deal cheaper if you buy in quantity

    this cost only calculates in for the FIRST load compared to factory fodder that won't be reloaded by the non handloader

    so if you say get bullets for $15 per 100 .15ea and eliminate the brass cost as would be the case with the second firing

    $0.18 per round or $3.61 per box of 20 minus powder
     
  8. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    Exactly, time being the most important factor of cost. Aside from the fact that ammo is actually back to decent prices, how fast can you reload? I would assume it is boring, tedious work after a while and a slip up due to inattention can cause some serious harm to you. I already showed 45acp at half your store's cost, and how long would it take to load 500 rounds approximately? Also I'm sure cheap sets are out there but I can't find any full setup on midwayusa for anywhere near $100.....
     
  9. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Regardless of the claims, if you can't get the ammo in the quantities you desire when you desire them and have not been able to do this for some time, there is a shortage where you are. Whether you want to call it an actual shortage or effective shortage does not matter as the end result is the same.

    What I find interesting is that you make this query AFTER resources are available anew. So sure you can get components. You can get ammo as well. Prices are dropping slowly.

    Ding ding ding dinggggg! We have a winner! Not only does my time have value, but it is in limited amounts. I seem to have something of a shortage of the amount of time I can dedicate to gun-related activities. If I am going to spend time on those activities, I would rather be shooting, hunting, working at my range, maintaining feeders, or taking care of my weapons to get ready to go shooting or hunting. I don't want to be spending the time stuck in the garage or a shop making ammo. Some folks enjoy it and that is great for them, but I see no pleasure in it and the $ savings are not equitable to the Time costs.
     
  10. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    TDK - check out the lee anniversary kits. Single stage press.

    TexasRifleman - No, when I am doing my hobbies... my time isn't worth anything. I wouldn't be making money during that time, and as a hobby you can bet it is what I would prefer doing. When working to make a living, my time is about 40 an hour... when I am playing and entertaining my self.... it's absolutely free.

    Is your time worth the -20 dollars for the time you are shooting a box of ammo? Time, in and of itself is worth nothing. Either you spend it doing something you enjoy, or you spend it doing something you don't enjoy (which is why we usually require payment for it). When you are very lucky, you get to get paid for the time you spend going something you enjoy. How much value does your time have? Can it be measured monitarily?
     
  11. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but single stage press means only 1 bullet at a time? And don't you need other stuff besides a press like a manual, scale, calipers, a table, etc?
     
  12. Wingnut13

    Wingnut13 Member

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    "lee anniversary kit" Kit..... has everything but powder, primers, bullets, and the appropriate die set. If your careful you can be loading with a good setup for under $150.
     
  13. MMCSRET

    MMCSRET Member

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    I don't understand charging yourself labor rates(time?) for working with your hobby. Do you charge your buddy for helping him put new U-joints in his off road 4 wheel drive mudder? If you do then he should charge you for the ride out to the deer stand.
    Or, and this just occurred to me, shooting is not a hobby, but a chore, like paying to have the lawn mowed, so you pay for ammo because your time is too expensive and you pay some one to shoot it for the same reason. Why bother?
     
  14. youngda9

    youngda9 member

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    How about this:

    30-30 remington 150 gr soft point core lokt 20 round box, 14.99 before tax

    150 gr spcl bullet, 100@21.99 .2199/1
    30-30 remington bulk case 100@28.99 .029/10 (can re-load the cases 10 times)
    remington primers 6 1/2 small 1000@30.99 .03099/1
    Powder $22/lb, Lb=7000grains, 35grain max load in 30-30 for 200 shots per pound, $22/200=$0.11

    roughly $0.39 for a round, $7.80 per box of 20.
    roughly $0.75 per round loaded from the factory during anual sale at the local super outlet hunting store.

    a difference of $0.36 per round. or a difference of $7.19 per box of 20.
     
  15. highorder

    highorder Member

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    I'd be put off if he asked for my help and didn't offer beer when the job was done, so yes. ;)
     
  16. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Do you also apply this logic to your range time? Man you need to get some free time and enjoy life and smell a rose or two. Another thought, do you hunt and apply the "total cost" of hunting to the price of meat harvested? Just wondering.
     
  17. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    I believe that Dillon posts the rounds per hour you can crank out on any of their presses. Given a lazy Saturday afternoon, it's not hard to make a thousand or so rounds of pistol ammo in a couple of hours.

    Ultimately, however, it becomes an issue of economics. If you only shoot occasionally, it probably doesn't make sense to buy a reloading press. If, on the other hand, you intend to compete or shoot with any serious regularity, a press becomes a necessity.
    Not only is it possible to make ammunition for less than what it costs at the store or online, it's also possible to load ammunition that is much more consistent as well.

    I don't enjoy reloading, I consider it a chore much like doing the dishes or laundry. However, I do enjoy shooting a great deal. Without the ability to reload, I wouldn't be able to shoot nearly as often.
     
  18. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    The original argument was that reloading saved money. It does not, especially with the low volume systems. It's fun, it's entertaining, it's relaxing, it's better for accuracy most of the time but you can't argue that it saves any money since your time has value.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2009
  19. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    Ultimately, it probably boils down to what your hourly salary is, how many rounds you can load in an hour. I've seen Xcel spreadsheets that allow a reloader to keep track of his costs, to include time.
     
  20. chuckusaret

    chuckusaret member

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  21. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Aahhhh the joys of being retired, and not having to be concerned about hourly rates, overtime, salary ect., ect. Was able to retire at 58 years and believe me I'M LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT.
     
  22. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Yep, I've played with those too.

    When I was shooting IPSC and going through 500-600 rounds a week it worked out, cranking the Dillon, all that. But even then just barely and that was back 10 years ago when primers were not made of gold.

    Reloading for financials just doesn't seem to work out for me any more. I still do it but I don't kid myself about the reasons.
     
  23. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    It' good to learn on a single stage anyway, plus when you upgrade you have a press to use for small batch load workups.
     
  24. kanook

    kanook Member

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    I didn't see any post on how much fuel, ware and tear, and how many times you had to go to the store to see if they had what you wanted figured anywhere.
     
  25. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Haven't convinced me. Just checked Blazer 45 acp ammo at Natchezz, on sale for $19.99 or 20 bucks a box of 50 rds. I can very easily reload 200 rounds an hour, and cost of components to reload 1 round for me amounts to less than 5 cents, thats $2.50 a box of 50 rds. This works out to approx $70.00 an hour, bretty good pay for a retired old farx.

    And I didn't factor in shipping, but also didn't factor casting my own bullets. Leads free and can cast about 3 to 4 hundred an hour.
     
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