PSA AR-10 .308 Lowers

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gbw

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They have these advertised for $150, includes all lower parts including an 'enhanced polished trigger', and a fixed stock. I've 2 questions about these.

1. Is it a routine change to swap the fixed stock for an adjustable buffer tube and stock, i.e. a Magpul or such, later on if I want to?

2. Are PSA lowers of good quality for parts fit and quality? They strongly recommend a PSA upper with this lower and that's fine if they are accurate.

BTW they have the same lower with an adjustable stock for $200.

Thanks,
 
If you definitely want an adjustable stock, you will pay more than $50 to change it later. For the price, PSA has some of the best quality ARs out there.
 
When you're dealing with AR10s it is my advice that you source the upper, lower and the small parts for both from the same manufacturer.
 
If you wait you can get the at10 lower with assistance stock for 150-180 depending on what stock it is. They pop up in the daily deals ask the time. Sign up for their emails if you haven't already. They send 2 a day
 
PSA lowers will ONLY work with PSA uppers.

That said, I love all mine, WELL worth the money.

However, be sure to check that any carbine stocked one has the correct parts installed... there are two distinct different versions from PSA... DPMS pattern and Armalite pattern.. they do NOT interchange, parts wise. Attempting to do so, will lead to bad issues.
See this link for detailed info between the 2 patterns.

IMHO, the Armalite pattern is preferred...( the last link shows a DPMS pattern ( DPMS shorter buffer than a Armalite pattern, the Armalite pattern uses normal AR15 carbine buffers )
https://www.ar15.com/forums/industr...buffer-system-length-on-the-PA10-/301-286585/

Also for those interested...
My reviews of the PA10 GII , and the PSA PA65..

https://www.ar15.com/forums/industr...terion-barrel-results-10-Sept-17-/301-284190/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/PSA-PA10-GenII-lower-w-PA-65-review-START-at-the-beginning-again-UPDATED-with-Tn-G-results-/301-285762


 
I ordered this yesterday $150 shipped. I confess I don’t know which ‘pattern’ it is. Also haven’t decided on the upper yet except it will be PSA in .308, probably 16” barrel.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...cs-l-ept-lower-receiver-black-5165449464.html

Does anyone know if the PSA Enhanced Polished Trigger is actually any better than a standard AR trigger? I’ve replaced all my AR-15 triggers because they are so bad.


Thanks for all the help & ideas!
 
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I ordered this yesterday $150 shipped. I confess I don’t know which ‘pattern’ it is. Also haven’t decided on the upper yet except it will be PSA in .308, probably 16” barrel.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...cs-l-ept-lower-receiver-black-5165449464.html

Does anyone know if the PSA Enhanced Polished Trigger is actually any better than a standard AR trigger? I’ve replaced all my AR-15 triggers because they are so bad.


Thanks for all the help & ideas!

The above linked buffer thread will show you which "pattern" it is. I use the "pattern" term a lot ... just so people don't order parts that don't inter mix.
BE sure to check the buffer parts... again the parts don't interchange, and if used / mixed together... you can see short stroking or lower receiver extension battering ( along with odd feeding issues ) ... nothing that can't be fixed... but important to check.
And double check the buffer tube is fully threaded ... as in that extra 360 degree turn if needed.

If you are not sure ... post photos.

I am quite "versed" in PSA large frame firearms. ( And not bragging.. just trying to help everyone enjoy their bargain Large Frame AR )
And most certainly use a PSA upper with it.

The PSA enhanced trigger is pretty good for its price....

If you decide to "upgrade" the trigger... the LaRue MBT two stage is a great deal.

And... if the grip is to small... ( hand size dependent ) Magpul has another extended version with the added back strap.
 
Thanks ...006. If I sounded snarky it was unintentional. I'm mainly a pistol guy. I don't know much about AR-15s, I can change out the trigger group and that's about it, and I know nothing at all about the larger versions. So I'm grateful you share your all you know.

I'll check which pattern I have when it comes in, and the other checks you recommend. Then I still have to decide about an upper but I'll take your advice and stay with PSA. I just hope the accuracy is ok.

I am interested, as far as you've learned, in what ways is the current PSA lower not compatible with other makers uppers and other parts?

Thanks again, gbw
 
Thanks ...006. If I sounded snarky it was unintentional. I'm mainly a pistol guy. I don't know much about AR-15s, I can change out the trigger group and that's about it, and I know nothing at all about the larger versions. So I'm grateful you share your all you know.

I'll check which pattern I have when it comes in, and the other checks you recommend. Then I still have to decide about an upper but I'll take your advice and stay with PSA. I just hope the accuracy is ok.

I am interested, as far as you've learned, in what ways is the current PSA lower not compatible with other makers uppers and other parts?

Thanks again, gbw

Lol... I didn't sense any snarky attitude... we are all GTG.
My thread about the 18" .308 PSA shows my accuracy with both a 18" SS PSA , and a nitrated 18" PSA ... so given even decent ammo I was very happy.

And my answers here are going to geared towards the DPMS'ish pattern that PSA has adopted in the PA10 PA65 GenII ( again I try to be specific because of all the various brands ... I am not going to go into Armalite AR10 differences... yet , Lol )

As for fitting other large frame AR uppers on a PSA lower, since there is no "mil-spec" guidelines for .308 / 6.5CM AR's there tends to be a variety of slight design differences ( Ford v. Chevy v. Dodge kind of thing ) ...

A big one is the PSA bolt catch, PSA uses a proprietary bolt catch.. it is different enough that other uppers may not even close on it. Yet you need the PSA one so it can catch the BCG properly. ( Again just a slight difference that does matter.. kinda Ford v. Chevy thing ) Aero and quite a few others use a different similar design ... but they do not fit a PSA at all... pivot hole in a slightly different position, mag follower "hook" is larger on the PSA bolt catch, even the angled large portion of the bolt catch is different...
That said... it all works fine with a PSA PA10 Gen I and II upper. Just as it was designed.

Also the pivot pin and locking pin holes on the receivers can be placed at slightly different positions.. but different enough that while one pin closes.. the other will not.

Oddly the Mag catch on the PSA seems to be at a slightly different angle as well. The OEM PSA one works 100% and just fine, but my Forward Controls "upgrade" one required some tuning to work correctly.. ( FC does not recommend it in a PSA.. but do recommend it in a DPMS. ) I would have thought something as simple as the Mag Catch would be closer to being standard... not an issue ( I ordered more and tweaked all as needed, I like to tinker. )

There are numerous Large Frame AR's that have slightly different pistol grip / lower receiver dimensional differences... since Magpul makes a pistol grip variant specific to some Large Frame AR's
From Magpul's webpage

"
* NOTE: This TYPE 2 Kit uses taller backstraps for optimized fit with certain 7.62x51 receivers such as the Armalite AR-10A/B/T, DPMS LR308, KAC SR25, LaRue OBR, LMT .308 MWS, Palmetto PA10, and S&W M&P10.
Some 7.62x51 variants such as the Aero Precision M5 308, CMMG Mk3, CORE Rifle Systems CORE30, HK 417/MR762A1, LWRCI REPR, Mega Arms MATEN, POF P-308, Ruger SR-762, and SIG716 will require the TYPE 1 Kit.

In general, the TYPE 1 Kit will fit most all 7.62x51 AR lower receivers but there may or may not be a gap between the backstrap's 'beavertail' and the receiver. This gap is purely aesthetic and will not affect function."

Some Large frame DPMS pattern BCG's may have the forward assist in a slightly different location.... the PSA upper has it correctly located for its BCG.... ( as well as Toolcraft, AIM Surplus, and at least 2 other brands that elude my memory currently. )

.
Stuff that is completely compatible on the PSA PA10/ PA65 GenII.... ( AR15 parts )
The whole trigger assembly.
The whole safety
Various common detent and springs ( just not the pivot pins and latching pin... they are longer because of the wider .308 sized frame )
A rifle length stock and buffer assembly... ( although you probably want a stronger spring and possibly a heavier then 5.4oz rifle length buffer )
As far as the carbine buffer assembly .... as long as you use either the DPMS pattern carbine buffer assm. completely.. or the Armalite pattern buffer assm. completely... you will be GTG. ( I will list the issues in another post when those parts are mixed... NOTHING good comes from mixing the two different patterns. )

So for the most part ... the PSA Large frame is GTG, with only a few proprietary parts.... although... the same could be said about DPMS and Aero, if the PSA had come first. Lol
 
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Problems from mixing the DPMS pattern and Armalite pattern carbine buffer assemblies in a Large framed .308 / 6.5CM .

NOTE: PSA will fix any issues or wrong parts. Period..... Josiha has worked hard and long to improve PSA Customer Service immensely.
Lots of time if you can correctly describe the problem, they may even just send you the correct part.

A few straight forward comments first...
The BCG on most .308 / 6.5CM is dimensionally longer then a AR15 BCG... so when you use a AR15 Carbine length buffer tube ( DPMS pattern )... the buffer itself MUST be shorter... to allow the BCG to allow full travel and properly cycle..( IE..Lock back on a empty mag, feed the next round... and as mentioned, actually reliably cycle. ) A DPMS pattern buffer is 2.5" long.... and while that short buffer will work... the recoil spring has to fit in that little 2.5" space... that little ol' 2.5" buffer length, has other limitations... it can only be made so heavy... and while you can buy a 5.4oz DPMS pattern buffer... the added cost is high .... so for the most part, you are limited to about 3.4oz weight.

The Armalite pattern carbine buffer assembly... uses a a longer buffer tube length ( Same as a Vltor tube length ) still allowing a correct BCG travel distance .. and allows a longer, conventional AR15 carbine buffer to be used.... a 5.4oz buffer weight is readily available. Combine that with a longer OAL ... and your spring options are increased as well. ( More coils ) And a Armalite .308 recoil spring is "stronger" then most typical DPMS pattern ones. Remember a Armalite recoil spring will need the extra compressed space allowed by the longer buffer... but I am getting ahead of myself.

The problems when you mix the 2 different patterns...
I have to say... I have seen the two different pattern recoil assemblies mixed in PSA PA10 / 65 carbine stocked lowers.... sooooo...

Upon receiving your complete lower... you need to check the parts, and make sure the buffer tube is screwed in all the way. Even one full thread less then fully screwed in can cause damage to your lower receiver ( the part the buffer tube threads onto the lower ) .. if your DPMS or Armalite pattern buffer assm. is not fully screwed in... the back of the 308 BCG can bang the lower receivers threaded portion.

Both designs can do it if not fully threaded.

If your complete lower has a mix of the buffers and tube lengths...

A longer Armalite pattern buffer tube and a shorter DPMS buffer... cycling issues and hard banging on the lower receiver... a broken bolt catch.
If the shorter DPMS buffer is used in a longer Armalite buffer tube... The BCG will be allowed WAY to much overtravel into the buffer tube.. that will cause impact into the lower.
The broken bolt catch, while not immediate... will happen sooner or later... because the BCG gains to much speed and momentum.. slapping the bolt catch with far more force then it is designed to handle when locking on an empty mag.

The other way around...

An Armalite length buffer ( longer ) in a DPMS pattern buffer tube ( shorter ) ... there simply isn't enough room for the BCG to function properly... not enough backward ( shoulder end ) travel to strip the next round or even the first round ( resulting in the next round being stripped midship and causing a jam ... not at the case head ) ..., the empty case is not allowed enough time to properly eject.... not enough travel to lock the bolt open.

There are more issues... but those are common ones.

Next... why the timing ( cyclic speed ) is very important on a .308 / 6.5M large frame AR...
 
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Cyclic speed... and why you want it to be correct. ( Or commonly described as being "Overgassed"

I know it sounds a little complicated... but it isn't.

You need everything to be timed correctly to avoid feeding and extraction issues.

The BCG cyclic speed can't run faster then the magazines springs can push the next round up...

If your firearm is "overgassed" the BCG maybe trying to move back, before chamber pressure has dropped enough to "easily" extract the empty case.. and that will rip rims off or cause the extractor to slip off, leaving the empty in the chamber. Also... if the empty case is left in the still under high pressure chamber, lots of times that can cause popped primers ( the primer is no longer being supported by the bolt face, and that pressure will look for a easy place to vent.. pushing the primer out )

The ejector needs a correct amount of time to pull the empty case out...

If your firearm is "overgassed" it is basically from the gas port being to large. I have built numerous different brand large frame AR's, with numerous different brand barrels ( 11 to date ) ... so far all have been overgassed.

The excess gas from a to large gas port ( or even a industry standard gas port ) will cause a very fast cyclic speed. IE... not enough time for the various parts to function properly.
Think of it like a water hose v. a firehose.... same water pressure... but the firehose has more volume of water at the same pressure. The .308 case has considerably more propellant being burned down the barrel.. and much more gas being produced.

.

Soooo... to fix the "overgassed" aspect... ( And remember that doesn't mean a firearm is overgassed in all environments ( cold weather with lube that works well in heat, not cold arctic temps ) , gritty nasty conditions, and less then ideal lubing conditions... at those moments, the added gas helps insure function )

.

IMHO... an Adjustable GB is the best way to slow down the cyclic speed... you are limiting the volume of gas being used to function the firearm. Limiting the gas means the shove used from the gas to operate the BCG is milder... still the same pressure, just less of a blast of it.

That means the bolt remains closed slightly longer ( milliseconds is all it takes ) and the chamber pressure, drops to a more suitable milder extraction pressure.

The BCG at this resticted gas flow / lower cyclic speed, allows the mag spring to keep up... allows the case milliseconds more time to be ejected ... allows the primer to be fully supported during extraction... and even allows the recoil spring to be more cooperative.

An Adj. GB also allows a softer perceived recoil.... the kick is going to be the same from a .308 / 6.5CM no matter what you do... but if the BCG, buffer and recoil spring aren't flying back and forth super fast ( with a adj. GB ) ... the recoil impulse is spread out over a slightly longer time period.. again milliseconds... but you can tell immediately.

The same thing can typically ( and easily ) be done to a AR15 Carbine gas system ( or any length gas system ) with heavier buffers or recoil springs... all it is doing is slowing down the bolt opening.

You can also add heavier buffers and recoil springs to a Large frame AR, combined with an Adj. GB.

My rifle stocked .308 / 6.5 AR's run smooth as silk with a 9.3oz .308 rifle length buffer, a Tubbs .308 Flatwire recoil spring and a SLR adj. GB.
My carbine stocked Armalite buffer tubed .308 /6.5CM run smooth as silk with 5.4oz buffers, A Tubbs .308 Flatwire recoil spring, and a SLR Adj. GB. ( The Tubbs .. being a flatwire spring takes up lees room ... so it can be used anywhere )

The end result from those add on's is.... fired brass is in great shape( yanked out of the chamber at more moderate pressures )

, easier on all the cycling parts, easier follow up shoots, and very mild perceived recoil.

I wish all .308 / 6.5CM barrels came with smaller gas ports... but so far I have only seen a proper sized gas port ( IMHO ) in my just received Krieger 6.5CM 22" barrel.... or better said.. all the other barrels benefited from all the same add-on's.

IMHO.... plan on installing a Adj. GB on all .308 / 6.5CM barrels.... especially if they are middies or rifle length gas systems.

The added cost of a Adj. GB will transform your large frame AR's perceived recoil like night and day.
On that note... please remember.. I am just some schmuck form the internet... Lol.. and not everyone will agree with me... but everyone that fires my Large frame AR's comments immediately... "there is no recoil"...so I guess I am doing something right.... Lol

Again... Your PSA will run straight out of the box, albeit a little overgassed ( proper parts and assem. required ;) )... but those add-on's do make it softer shooting.
And when considering the price of decent ammo... they are a small price to pay for a more pleasant to shoot firearm.
 
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I could go on and on...( like I said, I like to tinker on my Large frame AR's ) so if I missed something.. please let me know.

IMHO, The PSA PA10 / 65 GenII is heck of a bargain... and a solid foundation for a Large frame AR.

BTW... the PA10 .308 and PA65 6.5CM fully interchange all OEM parts and uppers / lowers... so you can have one lower with two different caliber uppers. ( My PSA 6.5CM uppers have all been fantastically accurate for the low price )

I will answer as best I can.

While this may seem like a lot of stuff to know / do... If I can handle it, darn near everyone can.
 
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I’m very grateful you’re so willing to share all you’ve learned about these rifles and I suspect many others are too. I plan to follow your advice and take you up on your offer to help.

Now if PSA will just ship the lower. They have one of their uppers including BCG/CH For $299 that’s tempting.

Thanks again.
 
PSA PA-10 Lower receiver (complete) arrived, mostly very good news.

Fit / finish looks very good.
Grip is ok, I'd prefer it have been more rubbery feeling, but certainly serviceable.
Stock is very good.
The EPT trigger is excellent! Almost as good as the Geisle triggers I have on other rifles and will not need further work. Maybe a touch heavy but who cares, very crisp/clean.

HOWEVER: The buffer tube is not marked PA-10 and is 7' long. The writeup for this lower specifies the PA-10 buffer which is 8" long if I have all this right. So I don't know if the internal parts are correct or not, or if I should insist on the PA-10 buffer system.

Stainless barreled conventional complete upper should be here tomorrow so I'm wondering if I should go ahead and shoot it or not?
 
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