PSA vs. S&W M&P15, resale, and Desert Tan

Hello,

I am completely new to an AR. I've read a bit and PSA keeps coming up as a good starter. I have three questions with that idea.

I can get the M&P15 Sport for $530+transfer. I am price concious on this first dip into the pool for just target shooting. Can a PSA AR be built for that but with completed parts? It sounds like sticking complete lowers and uppers together isn't bad (?), but I have no interest in going further. Do the complete uppers and lowers come with the hardware to attach? Finally, with the PSA build that is comparable to the M&P15 Sport, are there any advantages over the S&W?

Resale: Do AR's hold up okay in resale? Additionally, do PSA builds generally hold value?

Completely separate from those two questions, is it possible to get desert tan furniture for cheap to replace both the PSA or M&P15 stock stuff?

Thank you!

 

Pairing a completed upper to a completed lower is a matter of pushing two pins with a thumb, way easy. I'd guess that the PSA and M&P Sport are probably very close in resale and I've heard a lot of good about both guns. The furniture can be changed out for a desert tan set from Magpul for pretty cheap and I think you'd be able to find that color in the standard design also if the Magpul look isn't what you want. I'd look hard at PSA's choices that have a CHF (Cold Hammer Forged) CL (Chrome Lined) barrel.

 

As far as resale, you are always better off buying a name brand rifle than a no-name home built gun. A dealer might not take a PSA in trade at all, and selling it yourself will be tougher than a S&W.

 

If it means anything, I put a PSA upper for sale Sunday night at 5pm and had eleven people interested by Monday morning, sold by Monday afternoon and it wasn't a giveaway price, just a fair one.

 

Uppers don't have Brand names on them. And yet they do all the important work - bolt, barrel, rifling etc. handle launching the bullet.

The lower has the roll mark and SN. That's when provenance and it's appraised value to another shooter inserts itself into the conversation. People are willing to pay for exclusivity, and even demand it. If the product goes mass market they won't pay the high price for it, status is what they are really buying.

S&W has more status as a roll mark than Palmetto. If you plan to sell, consider. If it's really an entry level gun that you don't want to fuss with and need to shoot out of the box, then don't build one. That makes the S&W with a warranty the better value, too.

Beyond that - changing furniture, etc. you are better off assembling it yourself. It will only be cheaper because figuring in the loss of value selling off used furniture and adding it to the cost of then finished firearm, plus shipping, might be more expensive. With kits running at the $400 level right now it's attractive. It's NOT rocket science to screw together an AR15 from a kit, and can be done in a few hours.

You can pin together a lower and upper to make one firearm, but there's no warranty. And with the AR, that's exactly what you do, with complete uppers and lower all you do is pin and done. Except you need a couple of magazines, some kind of sights, a cleaning kit, then there's the shooting mat for the range, a sling, maybe a cheap spotting scope or binoculars, a good jacket for shooting, some way to pick up the brass, then figuring out maybe you could reload it for even cheaper more accurate ammo.

You see where this is going?

Good luck.

 

Some do. For example, BCM marks their uppers, and Colt uppers often have specific forge marks indicating they are Colt. I would expect either to draw more than a similarly-configured PSA upper (some of which are marked as well).

All that said, my preference would be a correctly-assembled PSA build over a S&W M&P Sport (especially the inferior 2nd-gen M&P Sports that lack the 1:8 twist 5R rifling).

 

PSA complete lowers and complete uppers can be found on sale for as low as $300 for both but you need to time the sales. Throw in the BCG, charging handle and rear sight, and you may be adding another $150. But this is the low end of their price spectrum. They have many different options and configurations.

 

To recap...

It sounds like a S&W M&P15 Sport might actually be the better deal? I didn't see anyone post that a PSA lower and upper in the same price range offered any advantages and could have a worse resale?

 

I have a Sport, it's been reliable in somewhere between 1500 and 2000 rounds.

 

If you are going to be doing only target shooting, the heavier barrel on the M&P may be a good thing. It has 1/9 twist. As long as you don't plan on shooting 75/77 grain match ammo, it should be fine. They have a good reputation for accuracy. That sounds like a good price. The general rule of thumb you hear is that complete, factory, name-brand ARs are easier to re-sell than builds. I'm not sure how much difference it makes when you're talking about $500 or less ARs though. I know I've made some real good money on a PSA I put together to re-sell.

The PSA product that compares best to the Sport is this upper for $170: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies.html?p=1

This complete lower for $130: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/14434/category/4284/

This $80 BCG: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/15174/category/332/

And a $23 charging handle: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/5410/category/336/

So you could have a PSA rifle for $403 plus shipping and transfer.

 

AR prices are only going to go up. Don't sweat it. Check out MAS Defense for parts as well.

Or just do a build on a name brand lower if you want resale. Bushy/Stag/CMT stripped lowers are what, $55? $99 for the boutique name brands?

(I'm building a fake Noveske on a stripped Noveske lower. Why? Just for the fun of it.)

 

One of my main must haves for an AR is a lined barrel. I don't think the SW has their melonited lining anymore. That's what I heard. I could be wrong though so look into it.

Also remember that there is a tax on compete rifles. Therefore buy the 130 dollar lower from PSA and have it shipped to your FFL. Then on another day buy the upper and have it shipped to your house should save you a little money.

I'm not a big PSA fan but I'd buy one over the SW Sport for the more traditional configuration and chrome lined barrel.

 

some folks really dwell on basic AR features that are absent on the S&W such as the forward assist and dust cover; both of which are standard on the PSA. next is the use of the gun.... as a defensive gun what's the difference between the two? as a paper hole puncher what's the difference between the two?

 

I believe that S&W still nitride-treats their M&P Sport barrels, they just stopped paying for the "Melonite" trademark. In their catalog they call it a "durable, corrosion-resistant finish".

 

When i purchase PSA products i am very selective as they offer good parts and they offer premium parts. For an entry level weapon I would ( and own) look at the S&W Sport as it is a real winner for the bucks invested. There are many other entry level AR's at this time that are reasonably priced, Del Ton is a real shooter for the money. Perhaps the smartest move for that first rifle would be to take advantage of generally discounted prices today and purchase a Colt 6720 or 6920 for your basic platform. This rifle will shoot forever with top grade components that are correctly assembled and engineered to give long service.

 

S&W over PSA alllll day long

But I'd rather have the M&P than the (1/9) Sport.

 

When you purchase a complete lower and upper from PSA, do you also have to buy parts to complete the rifle? Noob question

 

If you get a complete upper WITH BCG and Charging handle,

Like this: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/8555/category/4220/

Then no, no other parts are necessary. Just line them up and push in the two pins.

If you get an upper WITHOUT BCG and charging handle,

Like this: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/10306/category/4220/

Then you will have to purchase a BCG and charging handle. I got the second upper (the M4 premium) and it is sweeeet)

Here are the BCG and charging handle, just in case:

BCG: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/15174/category/332/

Charging Handle: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/5410/category/336/

These are just PSA components, you can search around and get whichever brand you'd like.

Hope this helps

 

The S&W sporty is around par with psa's freedom line in terms of specs/quality.

I just assembled one of PSA's premium CHF rifles (for about $100 more than the S&W), and that sporty is not even close in terms of specs/quality.

It's your money, and if you want a name brand roll mark, get it. If you want the most rifle you can get for your money, it's going to be the PSA.

 

If you're patient, you could watch for sales and keep the price of an AR build low yet use quality parts. (Better than the M&P-15 Sport) For example you could buy a stripped lower receiver with a name brand rollmark then catch a sale on a PSA lower build kit and an upper (or a complete rifle build kit). Often these kits can be bought with Magpul flat dark earth furniture. I've bought really nice stripped lowers from S&W, ArmaLite, Valkyrie, Charles Daly and Spikes Tactical that put a highly visible stamp of quality on the rifle built upon them (which had other quality parts). I also paid a bit more for a Quentin Defense US Army Edition billet stripped lower that was the base of a wonderful personalized AR.

Don't forget you can buy desert tan, coyote brown or FDE spray paint to get the color furniture you want instead of factory black. I've done this to a couple ARs with excellent results. It will ding up with hard use but that just adds character to the rifle.

 

So the pins are part of either the lower or upper on the complete sets. No further hardware required to mate the together?

Where does a stainless steel barrel fall on the chrome vs melonite treatment scale?

 

The pins will be attached to a complete lower when you buy it.

I'll let someone else answer the barrel questions since there are a number of variations and others could answer it better than I can.

 

For $800-900 you can get a Spike's, Colt, S&W MP, or Stag. You'd be better off doing so, wouldn't be settling for a budget AR that you'll want to upgrade later, or worrying about resale. Buy once, cry once.

 

I always recommend buying a new, assembled rifle for your first AR-15. I say this because when I went to build my first AR, I had all kinds of problems troubleshooting a failure to feed (FTF) issue. I had just recently gotten into ARs and, honestly, was not familiar at all with how they worked. With a new gun you get a warranty so if anything is wrong, you can just send it back -- something you don't get with a rifle you build yourself.

 

Apples to apples, stainless tends to be slightly more accurate than melonite/nitride barrels, and a little more still than chrome lined.
Tradeoff is decreased barrel life.

I think that if are going to own and operate an AR (or any rifle, for that matter), you should have a fairly intimate knowledge of how it works, and how to do some basic troubleshooting /repairs. What will you do if you have a malfunction when/if your life depends on it, send it off for repairs??

They are actually relatively simple to build and repair, otherwise they wouldn't be put into battle.