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PSL or SVD?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Willie Sutton, Nov 30, 2013.

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  1. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    Ended up with a few cases of 7.62x54R and it needs a shootin'...

    My only Mosin is a new unissied sniper that I bought for my cokllection some 20 years ago, and it's staying in the rack. I basically despise Mosins anyhow, and have no need for another.

    Been wanting to scratch one of the last sniper itches I have and it's time for a "precision" rifle in the caliber to join the others in the collection. I'm not particularly price sensitive and am a stickler for originality IE: converted "sporting" configuration rifles are not going to cut the mustard. I'm what I would call an indermediate level collector of sniper rifles and this will be added to a collection that includes original unaltered sniper German Mausers, G-43, FN-49, Hakim, Swedish Mauser, M1C, M1D, Springfield 03A4, Enfield #4Mk1T, etc.


    So.... PSL, SVD, or both?

    "Best" selections in either?


    Have at it!


    Willie

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  2. Ian

    Ian Member

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    SVDs are much superior to PSLs, but also a lot more expensive and more difficult to find. IMO, the best solution is to find a nice SVT-40. That would be a lot more interesting and historically significant than a PSL, and also easier to track down than an SVD. Besides, surplus 54R is mostly machine gun ammo, and not going to give particularly impressive groups with an SVD.
     
  3. W L Johnson

    W L Johnson Member

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    Remember someone testing the two against each other and with both using high quality ammo, not the bulk stuff, the PSL actually came out slightly ahead.
    Wish I bookmarked that, or maybe I did and it's lost in the million and one bookmarks I have. Now like everything else on the internet take with a grain of salt but I fully believe the PSL is under rated. I think part of the problem is the low quality barrels that were put on many of the imported ones in the US.

    That said I still lust for a SVD (Glad that's SVD and not STD)
     
  4. Cryogaijin

    Cryogaijin Member

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    Vepr 54r?
     
  5. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    "IMO, the best solution is to find a nice SVT-40"



    Thanks, Ian: As always our tastes are similar. I already have both SVT-38 and SVT-40 in the rack right next to the open space for the long awaited FG-42 which I promise not to mortar-clear if I get a stoppage.... ;-). Get yours fixed yet?


    Semi auto choices? Best SVD? Best PSL? In for a penny, in for a pound, probably need one of each.....


    I dimly remember back when I worked at SARCO eons ago in the 80's that we had SVD's in stock and sold them, but they were out of my area there and I confess that I never even handled one. I was a Mauser guy at the time and there were so many different Mausers there that I was fully occupied during lunchtime playing with those. That would have been about 1982. Dunno even where they were built, as it was WAY before the end of the cold war.

    Vepr 54R fits into the "non-collectable" category for me. I'm a stickler for authentic issue or as close to that as possible.


    PSL seems, as was said, an under-rated thing. Bearing in mind that it's a designated marksmans rifle and not a precision rifle. Been issued to a lot of armies... something must be right about it.



    Willie

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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  6. Ian

    Ian Member

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    How about a semiauto DP28 or DPM? :)
     
  7. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    Snake Hound Machine VEPR-54R Carbine (shoots 2 MOA with surplus ammo)
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    ^^

    That's a beauty, but is not representative of anything historical. I'm not looking for a modern super-rifle, I'm looking to add to an existing collection of significant as-issued military rifles. It is a beaut though!

    Ian writes:

    "How about a semiauto DP28 or DPM?"


    You're just as insane as I am.... two gun anyone? :evil:

    Gotta love drums!


    Willie


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  9. Ian

    Ian Member

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    Oh and Willie - the one I broker wasn't actually mine; it was a loaner from the manufacturer. They did fix it, and we'll be running it in the December or January match.

    A semi DPM is right up on my list of things to get. I have a great parts kit (a compilation of several, actually) with all the receiver sections, an intact barrel shroud, intact barrel, etc. It's just waiting for when I have the money and opportunity to get it built. I would absolutely run it in a 2-gun match. :D
     
  10. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    The only thing better that loaning your own FG-42 out and having your buddy bust it is loaning out a LOANER FG-42 and having your buddy bust it. You definately get high points for style... :D Or did you do that yourself?

    Mine ought to be done... "soon", but according to what celestial clock "soon" is guaged by, only a guy in Texas really knows. When It's done it'll be time to fire up the faithful Cessna 310 and to take a little road trip to collect it.

    Your project sounds great. Money comes, and money goes, but parts kits, once stashed under the bench, last forever.


    Now... why don't you just get an 07 FFL and pay the stinkin' SOT and make a proper gun outta that stuff?


    Willie

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  11. Ian

    Ian Member

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    Neither of us will admit to breaking the rifle, and there are no witnesses, so nobody aint provin' nuthin! :)

    I don't have the time, money, or facilities right now to maintain an 07 FFL...so I'm just stocking up parts kits...I have a .308 Israeli FN-D with all the receiver pieces, too...
     
  12. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    ^^ Copy... I'd get one if I only could stay in one place for more than a few weeks at a time. Maybe we need a close friend to get one and then be his demonstrating salesmen...

    Nobody actually shooting either of the snipers I'm interested in?


    Willie

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  13. Ian

    Ian Member

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    This won't help you with your excess 54R ammo, but my choice for AK-like designated marksman's rifle was a Yugo M76 in 8mm Mauser. I like its handling a lot more than either the PSL or SVD...probably in part because I'm left handed, and the Yugo is very nicely ambidextrous. But beyond that, the M76 is a fantastic piece of machinery, and totally puts the PSL to shame. I would wager that with good ammo, it comes pretty close to matching a Dragunov for accuracy, too.
     
  14. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    ^ Interesting.. I'll contemplate that.

    7.92x57 is going to feature in life again anyhow as soon as the FG-42 comes, so why not....


    Willie

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  15. W L Johnson

    W L Johnson Member

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    I'll 2nd the Yugo M76 in 7.92x57
    First started selling in the $3,000 range then dropped to around $1,000, which is when I got mine, jumped back up to $2,000 early this year. Hopefully coming back down.

    BTW: There's a company now selling converted M76s in 30-06, & 308


    P1130088-rs_zps5a60609e.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  16. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    So.... what you're telling me is that I need to add three rifles to the wall and not just two? :evil:

    Thanks both for the direction towards the Yugo. I've always liked well the Yugos of every sort. I hadn't even had these on my radar before. Assume they can be had as factory assembled rifles and not in the ever-popular Century "drunken monkey" varient?


    Willie

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  17. Ash

    Ash Member

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    I've owned both the PSL as well as SVD (NDM-86 and a real deal Izhevsk, not a Tigr). The SVD has a better trigger in general, but as combat rifles, there really isn't any difference in performance. As far as a shooter goes, I'd get a PSL. The SVD just isn't for shooting anymore, they are just too pricey. The VEPR might be another option. I've owned a few SVT-40's in my day, and I liked them. The gas piston and cup should be checked out before purchase, though, as some of these are pretty badly rusted out.
     
  18. Ian

    Ian Member

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    So, the hitch with the M76 is that they all have 100% new made-in-the-US receivers. The original receivers had a third hole in them (as I understand) and although they were never made in a full-auto configuration the ATF deemed the original receivers machine guns. So wholly new receivers were made, and I think some of the early ones had some feed issues.
     
  19. Ash

    Ash Member

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    The M76's had issues, depending on the maker. Original military PSL's also had the third hole and are also banned. I recall the day when the M76's came in - guys were all over themselves buying them (had they been in 7.61x54r, I'd have bought one). Then the ATF came in and confiscated them. The only solution was to tear them down to parts and rebuild them. As a result, as nice as the M76 was (though not really any different than the PSL), the US-made ones developed a spotty reputation. This is made worse by the lack of cheap or even strong ammo for them.
     
  20. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    "The original receivers had a third hole in them (as I understand) and although they were never made in a full-auto configuration the ATF deemed the original receivers machine guns"


    Yeah... thanks both of you (Ash and Ian): ^^

    I'd read about this. Safety Sear and all of that. I had missed the part about confiscations though... wonder why they didn't just "G Series FAL" them, but that was then and this is now, I guess.

    PSL & M76 "assemblers/importers" to look at and to stay away from? Mebbe a Nodak receiver and a pile-o-parts... Building up one can't be a chore, and although I may have a resemblance to a monkey, at least I don't drink. :eek:


    Willie

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  21. Ash

    Ash Member

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    As far as PSL's go, the ranking goes as follows:

    Romak III (Intrac Importation)
    SSG-97 (Interordnance importation)
    PSL-54C with 1970's serial number on trunion
    FPK with dot matrix stamping - TGI Importation
    PSL-54c Sport
    FPK with laser-etched stamp (TGI made)

    The first two are the least common but are the best. They will lack a bayonet lug (made from new parts). I was partial to the PSL-54C made from original 1970's parts (my first one was in the batch of illegal third-hole weld-ups that were basically PSL's in original condition with original military arsenal markings ground off - it got recalled and sent back).

    I'd avoid US builds as they could be as spotty as the M76 builds.
     
  22. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    ^^ Excellent, thanks.

    I'd give up a bayonet lug to get a receiver/trunion/barrel put together back in the old country.



    Willie

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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  23. Mikee Loxxer

    Mikee Loxxer Member

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    I know you said you despised Mosins, but what about this one?

    http://www.empirearms.com/28-76.htm

    Edit: I see that they are sold out on the website linked above. That being said I'm sure somebody has one for sale somewhere :)
     
  24. Jcinnb

    Jcinnb Member

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    yessir, Vepr 54R
     
  25. Swampman

    Swampman Old Fart

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    I've got a TGI built PSL, its been reliable and reasonably accurate for its intended purpose, but if money were no object, I'd far prefer to have a Dragunov.

    It's been a few years since I handled or shot one, but I still remember the solid, quality feel of the SVD. My PSL by comparison feels kind of cheap and "tinny". I honestly can't recall that the SVD was any more accurate, but I don't remember what ammo we were shooting either.

    As far as mil surp ammo goes, my PSL seems to prefer Polish light ball with Czech coming in a close second. I've never tried any of the sniper grade mil surp, but I haven't gotten near the accuracy improvements that I normally get from carefully prepared handloads.

    The lack of improvement is probably more because of the $%&##@ chevron reticle than anything else.
     
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