Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

PT1911 Did I break something or..?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by TheBullRoars, Apr 7, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. tarosean

    tarosean Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,403
    Location:
    TX

    This..


    Strip the gun and post pics
     
  2. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Sitting down to do it now. Here's what it looks like when the slide stops
     

    Attached Files:

  3. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    These are taken w a phone. If another angle is needed lmk
     

    Attached Files:

  4. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    More
     

    Attached Files:

  5. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    And mo
     

    Attached Files:

  6. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    And more
     

    Attached Files:

  7. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Few more. Will clean up and get better pics of needed
     

    Attached Files:

  8. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    ...
     

    Attached Files:

  9. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Flower Mound, TX
    Ok, from looking at the first pic of the new pix, you clearly have a nose-dive at a point when the case should be up against the feed lips. If you look closely, you can see that the slide stop appears to be in contact with the bullet. If this is the case, there should be copper smears on the slide stop. The slide stop should not be in contact with the bullet at any time. At this point in the feed cycle, the slide stop should be barely visible under the bullet, not pressing against it.

    Of course, if the slide lock is extending too far into the frame and is in contact with the bullets, you should have instances of premature slide lock and you aren't reporting that.

    Now, if there are no smears and the bullet is clearing the slide lock, then we are back to the magazine.

    Original 1911 mags have tapered lips that are narrower at the back than at the front This allows the round to feed with the nose higher than the rim. Newer, hybrid and wadcutter mags such as the one in the pic have lips that are less angled or are parallel for about half their length. This keeps the round in a more horizontal position and holds the nose down. Too much of this and the round will nose dive into the ramp.

    You can get too much of this if the mag follower/mag spring does not keep enough pressure on the round to force the nose up as soon as possible. Or if the follower tips forward so that the rims ride higer than the nose. 8 round mags hold 8 rounds because they have shorter follower tails. which allows the follower to be pushed lower in the mag to accomodate the 8th round. But it is the follower tails (along with a correctly shaped and tensioned spring) that keep the follower at the correct angle for each round. Shorter tails tend to allow the follower to tip forward and flatten out. Watch as you load your mags, on may 8 rounders, you can see the angle change and flatten out after the 5th or 6 round is loaded.
     
  10. tarosean

    tarosean Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,403
    Location:
    TX
    Is this a gouge?
     

    Attached Files:

  11. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    A little brass on the inside edge of the slide stop. Unfortunately a little wiped off before the picture. The divet in the other end is obv tool mark

    Never had premature slide lock and it could just be residue not brass? More or less "smeared" off
     

    Attached Files:

  12. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    At first it looked gouged or very slightly worn but it was filth that wiped off
     

    Attached Files:

  13. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    So how would the slide stop fall out of spec? Especially only causing problems only with chambering the first round?

    Will order new mags and slide stop (and safety.. and maybe a nice bushing, hd extractor etc...)

    Will try the mags first of course then see if a new slide stop helps

    Any more ideas in the mean time would be great. Thanks fellas
     
  14. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Flower Mound, TX
    First try this: Instead of inserting the mag and then racking the slide, lock the slide back, insert the mag, then drop the slide. Does it still jam?
     
  15. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Have to wake up early. Had work projects occupying my time. Will clean, lube, and try that tomorrow asap and post results.

    Also I had no idea wwb was -so- dirty. The gun is filthy after 100 rds but it was pretty wet too.

    Expect an update around noon today. Thx
     
  16. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Flower Mound, TX
    OK, 8 rnd mags are pretty crammed and the spring is fully compressed. There is no room for any more compression. And there has to be some room for compression when inserting a mag with the slide closed. Otherwise, the mag won't fully seat.

    I have a 13 rnd Hi-Power mag that I can cram 14 rounds into, but I can only insert it when the slide is locked. If the slide is closed, it won't seat at all and falls out. But if I insert it with the slide locked and drop the slide, it functions fine, but I still get just 13+1.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  17. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Will chamber the top round of 8 by dropping the locked slide but not otherwise. This problem chews up the rim of the case. Got a round stuck in the chamber but got it out. How frustrating

    7rds still loads fine racking the slide

    I wanted this gun to grow on me. I like the ergonomics and accuracy but as far as 100% problem free reliability.. nope. Whether its the mags working for a while then all of a sudden all at once failing, or maybe something else changing.. I have my doubts now

    Had it never loaded 8 rds problem free and if this was always an issue it would be one thing. But to work w multiple 8 round mags then all of a sudden, not at all with any of them..

    I'm all for labors of love and love-hate relationships.. but a gun is not a toy and I planned on carrying my only pistol and to trust my life to it hoping to have never experienced any malfunction of any kind for any reason. If a super special particular magazine is the only kind that will work, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Especially knowing that might not even be the issue
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  18. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Flower Mound, TX
    The 1911 was designed to run with a 7 round mag. Not 8. It can be forced to run with 8 if certain conditions are met.

    The magazine, whatever capacity has to present the round at the proper angle. Both the 7 and 8 round mags can do this, and when they do, the nose of the round is just a bit higher than the rim. They must maintain this angle when inserted into the pistol. The 7 rnd mag can do this reliably. When the slide is closed, the top round is pressed against the bottom of the slide and the entire stack in the mag is pressed downward in order to allow the mag to seat.

    In the 8 rnd mag, there is very little compression space available under the rim end of the stack, with a lot more space available is under the nose because the nose is riding higher. So the nose is pressed down more until the top round is parallel with the bottom of the slide above it. But this is the wrong angle for a reliable feed and the bullet nosedives into the feed ramp and you have a jam.

    Hard tapping the mag base when the jam occurs jars the round loose and with the slide partially open there is room for the nose to assume the correct feed angle and ride the feed ramp into the chamber.

    You don't have this problem with a 8 rnd mag with the slide locked back because there is no compression of the rounds needed to seat the mag and the top round maintains its proper feed angle. With 7 rnds, and a closed slide, the feed angle can be maintained during the compression when the mag is seated.

    I'm guessing JMB figured all this out or else we would have seen 8 rnd mags a 100 years ago.
     
  19. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Thanks for your tireless educating of a newbie.. all of you. I hope you know that it means a lot to me for strangers to spend the time to help me out.

    I just cant get my head around how the mags all worked and then all of a sudden did not.. even the one that never went to the range. is there a way that the break in period "settled" things to where it is what it is? As I think about it, it would make sense for them to not feed at first, stiffer mag springs and all

    Based on what you've seen and understand, for my particular gun.. which 7rd magazines would be best?

    Also.. what to make of the slide stop contacting the brass? Is there a certain brand replacement that I should try over the others?
     
  20. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Flower Mound, TX
    First, the slide stop. This problem usually causes early slide lock as well and you don't seem to be having that problem which is why I went back to the mags. You said brass smears. If the slide lock is the problem it should be copper, the brass really shouldn't be getting anywhere near the slide stop unless the nosedive has already occurred. The absence of early slide lock suggests the contact may be the result of the nosedive rather than the cause of it.

    As to why the mags suddenly stopped working, I don't know. The brand new springs may have been stiff enough to push the nose back up as soon as the slide was out of the way. They may have lost just enough stiffness to allow the nose to remain down. Or, under full compression, the springs may have shifted slightly at the mag base, or the follower tails may have become damaged or bent slightly. This is just off the top of my head as I don't have any 8 rnd mags to look at or play with to try an recreate the problem.

    For a mag recommendation, see post #15, Metalform mags also have a good rep.
     
  21. wow6599

    wow6599 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,417
    Location:
    Wildwood, MO
    Buy some quality mags and see what happens. Or send it back to Taurus on their dime......
     
  22. adaptandovercome

    adaptandovercome Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    53
    I have 2 pt 1911 and they work best with 7 rounds in the chip mccormic power or shooting star mags. Factory mags work well also. I never have luck with cramming in 8 rounds. The mags will say they hold 8 but they will reliably fire 7.
     
  23. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Flower Mound, TX
    Holds 8, feeds 7. :uhoh:

    With my Hi-Power mag that holds an extra round, I just look at it as a convenient way to load 13+1 without having to drop the mag to top it off. Lock slide, Insert mag, Drop Slide.
     
  24. TheBullRoars

    TheBullRoars Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Easiest way for 7+1 I guess. Still wish it held 8+1 like it reliably did the first couple hundred rounds. Now it seems if I load 8+1 with this happening that it would jam on the second round? I can test this out on Saturday but idk if I want to induce a failure in front of all my friends :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page