Same response still. Unless required by law or by insurance I would not require anything.
Public Shooting Range Dress Code?
- Thread starter Kynoch
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Same response still. Unless required by law or by insurance I would not require anything.
Kynoch
member
That's not a simple question to answer. Around here, law enforcement provides intelligence to business owners and event promoters on gang colors and other affectations. The businesses do have dress codes based in part on this intelligence.
If I actually "...owned a shooting range or was otherwise responsible for all policy and operations..." I would make use of this intelligence. In the specific case of bikers and their cuts, it would be easy enough to leave them in their vehicles. I would do that simply because I didn't want other patrons to feel uncomfortable around the bikers in the setting of a shooting range so it can be viewed as a monetary concern (people staying away.)
In the case of some cuts (eg. Hell's Angels) sporting the cuts pretty much means you're violent trash and most people don't want to be around them. The last thing I would want is for a range I was responsible for to become known as a hang-out for such people.
Better to just leave the cuts in their vehicles/range bags.
2bfree
Member
My clubs only rule is eyes and ears on the handgun range, ears only on all other ranges. Clothing is any thing you want. I am fine with that.
Kynoch
member
You might if it impacted the income of the range you owned or managed.
MagnunJoe
Member
No pants down your crack or no underwear above your waist would be nice.
Kynoch
member
Now THAT should be a federal law!
gdcpony
Member
While I know that liability would keep me from what I wish, I would allow them to decide for themselves. Safety for kids would be required though.
Around here, law enforcement provides intelligence to business owners and event promoters on gang colors and other affectations.
I guess gangs are pretty bad where you are in CA. I've lived in five different states: AR, MS, NC, OH and WA. In none of those places was I concerned about what people wore, even if it did make them look thuggish. It would be the guy in the next stall wearing glasses/muffs/collared shirt/loafers, because he'd be sweeping the entire line with the muzzle of his handgun with his finger on the trigger. Attire you find objectionable, offensive or frightening won't kill you. This might as well be the "guns don't kill, people do" argument but worded differently.
I guess gangs are pretty bad where you are in CA. I've lived in five different states: AR, MS, NC, OH and WA. In none of those places was I concerned about what people wore, even if it did make them look thuggish. It would be the guy in the next stall wearing glasses/muffs/collared shirt/loafers, because he'd be sweeping the entire line with the muzzle of his handgun with his finger on the trigger. Attire you find objectionable, offensive or frightening won't kill you. This might as well be the "guns don't kill, people do" argument but worded differently.
well, you edited post 18 after i responded, but my answer is the same. if you want to discourage and make certain elements unwelcome, then do it through your interaction with them. not by targeting stereotypes and making a list of rules.
say you reserve the right to restrict access. in the range agreement say you must submit to NICS check (you don't have to do it, just let them know that if they can't pass a background check, they can't shoot)
say you reserve the right to restrict access. in the range agreement say you must submit to NICS check (you don't have to do it, just let them know that if they can't pass a background check, they can't shoot)
Kynoch
member
Actually they are not. However they have not yet been eradicated and using this sort of intelligence is a tool to do just that.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Maybe.
I don't think it would come into play though.
Most things aren't an issue until someone makes them an issue.
Kynoch
member
Now THAT is some good input! I would largely agree too (except for the eyes, ears and closed-toed footwear) if I could be assured that the entire staff of the range would be uniform in its application.
That's a world away from the "whatever, I don't care" or the "mind your own business view, is is 'marica' " projected by some.
NB: I only "edited" it so I could read your comments as I typed.
Hardtarget
Member
The "eyes and ears" rule for 18 and under works for me. If an adult doesn't care...well.
Some wording on SOME clothing...if I'm there with my family(wife/kids) I should have some input on that being covered up. If its that bad, they should leave...not me.
Open clothing? If it burns and you do the "dance" and sweep every one...you leave. If the girls don't want to protect "the girls"... well...just don't sweep the line!
Shooting CAN be a dangerous sport and hot brass is part of the catalyst for unsafe action. There are several things we can do to make that dangerous part less likely.
Mark
Some wording on SOME clothing...if I'm there with my family(wife/kids) I should have some input on that being covered up. If its that bad, they should leave...not me.
Open clothing? If it burns and you do the "dance" and sweep every one...you leave. If the girls don't want to protect "the girls"... well...just don't sweep the line!
Shooting CAN be a dangerous sport and hot brass is part of the catalyst for unsafe action. There are several things we can do to make that dangerous part less likely.
Mark
.455_Hunter
Member
One of the last times I was at large public range, the young guy at the next station was dressed in a manner many of you would describe as "thuggish". His weapons of choice- a fine collection of vintage S&W .38s (M&Ps, Model 10s). His shooting put most of the OWGs "old white guys" to shame.
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Actually they are not. However they have not yet been eradicated and using this sort of intelligence is a tool to do just that.
Well, that's useful for them, I guess, but I agree with taliv.
If the range owner thinks his place of business is being used as a practice ground for drive-by shooters and cap-poppers, there are other ways to discourage it than a dress code. If he's just trying to court a select customer base, I can tell you right now that any dress restriction past eye and ear protection will keep me from frequenting the business and it's not b/c my pants have to be pulled up every five seconds. The one range I do frequent locally has a bunch of rules, but they are all related to safety (when the line is cold/hot, when you can handle your firearm, etc). I'd hate to think that in barring people, especially young people, because of their attire that we also drive them into the arms of anti-2A types.
Well, that's useful for them, I guess, but I agree with taliv.
If the range owner thinks his place of business is being used as a practice ground for drive-by shooters and cap-poppers, there are other ways to discourage it than a dress code. If he's just trying to court a select customer base, I can tell you right now that any dress restriction past eye and ear protection will keep me from frequenting the business and it's not b/c my pants have to be pulled up every five seconds. The one range I do frequent locally has a bunch of rules, but they are all related to safety (when the line is cold/hot, when you can handle your firearm, etc). I'd hate to think that in barring people, especially young people, because of their attire that we also drive them into the arms of anti-2A types.
I would definitely require Eyes, Ears and closed-toe shoes.
All of the other stuff I don't really care about. People should be allowed to dress however they want as long as it isn't over the top.
Gang related wear? Well I am in Idaho so no real issues with that. I've been to concerts and other events that prohibit such attire. Unfortunately, what defines gang attire is entirely subjective. I had a buddy who went to an event wearing a basketball jersey and they wouldn't let him in. Disappointing.
My point being that people shouldn't have to feel like they need to dress in a particular way to enjoy shooting. Unless you are opening an upscale range where you want to promote a certain dress code for your target customers. However, I assume we are talking about an average range.
Heck, I'd be lenient on the shoes thing too. Just coming from a dude who has spent a lot of time in science labs, shoes and eye wear are good for safety.
As for the "Rambo" crowd. Let them dress that way. They spent the money on it, why shouldn't the rest of the range-goers have some entertainment.
All this being said, I shoot in the desert and woods so I don't really concern myself with dress codes
All of the other stuff I don't really care about. People should be allowed to dress however they want as long as it isn't over the top.
Gang related wear? Well I am in Idaho so no real issues with that. I've been to concerts and other events that prohibit such attire. Unfortunately, what defines gang attire is entirely subjective. I had a buddy who went to an event wearing a basketball jersey and they wouldn't let him in. Disappointing.
My point being that people shouldn't have to feel like they need to dress in a particular way to enjoy shooting. Unless you are opening an upscale range where you want to promote a certain dress code for your target customers. However, I assume we are talking about an average range.
Heck, I'd be lenient on the shoes thing too. Just coming from a dude who has spent a lot of time in science labs, shoes and eye wear are good for safety.
As for the "Rambo" crowd. Let them dress that way. They spent the money on it, why shouldn't the rest of the range-goers have some entertainment.
All this being said, I shoot in the desert and woods so I don't really concern myself with dress codes
wally
Member
Other than ear and eye protection the rest are potentially problematic in some regards.
It gets really hot here, requiring long sleeved shirts and pants would cut down shooting hours for me. The hot brass issue is best fixed with walls/screens or adequate distance between shooting stations instead of dress codes.
As to "offensive" who gets to decide? Free speech and all that.
As to gang colors and signs, who is the authority? Some "gang signs" I see flashed on TV sure look like "hook 'em horns" that you see at UT football games in Austin. Crips vs. Bloods, are you gonna ban red and blue? Maybe "prison tattoos" should be on the list.
Again, over the top Rambo wear, who decides what is "over the top"?
It gets really hot here, requiring long sleeved shirts and pants would cut down shooting hours for me. The hot brass issue is best fixed with walls/screens or adequate distance between shooting stations instead of dress codes.
As to "offensive" who gets to decide? Free speech and all that.
As to gang colors and signs, who is the authority? Some "gang signs" I see flashed on TV sure look like "hook 'em horns" that you see at UT football games in Austin. Crips vs. Bloods, are you gonna ban red and blue? Maybe "prison tattoos" should be on the list.
Again, over the top Rambo wear, who decides what is "over the top"?
Kynoch
member
That's not always true. In certain locales, certain colors have very strong meanings with respect to gangs. So do wearing bandannas in a certain way, or specific types of hats or jewelry.I would definitely require Eyes, Ears and closed-toe shoes.
All of the other stuff I don't really care about. People should be allowed to dress however they want as long as it isn't over the top.
Gang related wear? Well I am in Idaho so no real issues with that. I've been to concerts and other events that prohibit such attire. Unfortunately, what defines gang attire is entirely subjective. I had a buddy who went to an event wearing a basketball jersey and they wouldn't let him in. Disappointing.
My point being that people shouldn't have to feel like they need to dress in a particular way to enjoy shooting. Unless you are opening an upscale range where you want to promote a certain dress code for your target customers. However, I assume we are talking about an average range.
Heck, I'd be lenient on the shoes thing too. Just coming from a dude who has spent a lot of time in science labs, shoes and eye wear are good for safety.
As for the "Rambo" crowd. Let them dress that way. They spent the money on it, why shouldn't the rest of the range-goers have some entertainment.
All this being said, I shoot in the desert and woods so I don't really concern myself with dress codes
There is an Elks hall not too far from where I live. They had a problem with members/guests wearing head-to-toe Oakland Raiders garb and then acting like jerks.
They passed a rule -- no gang garb and in their case it included sports teams garb. Pretty drastic I think, but it absolutely extinguished the problem.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Kynoch, reading stuff like that makes me glad I live in the backwoods of Arkansas.
No worries about that mess out here.
No worries about that mess out here.
janedoedad
Member
Those who think that gangs are not in their area; High probability that you are incorrect. Maybe not in your neighborhood, but almost certainly in your town.
So far as range dress code goes: Eyes, Ears Mandatory. Highly recommend that women do not wear V-neck or low-cut tops. I have seen a few brass in the bra dances. While somewhat entertaining, muzzle discipline tends to be forgotten.
So far as range dress code goes: Eyes, Ears Mandatory. Highly recommend that women do not wear V-neck or low-cut tops. I have seen a few brass in the bra dances. While somewhat entertaining, muzzle discipline tends to be forgotten.
fiftybmg
member
The question of dress code would not need to be raised if everyone was sensible about it.
People that walk around in their underwear with pants hanging off their thighs by default don't have enough IQ to be on a shooting range, so for their safety, they should stay home.
People that walk around in their underwear with pants hanging off their thighs by default don't have enough IQ to be on a shooting range, so for their safety, they should stay home.
Inebriated
Member
Sign a waiver saying I'm not liable, and I don't care what you do or do not wear.*
*I don't know how "tight" a waiver is in actually absolving you of liability, and would look into it before actually opening a range.
*I don't know how "tight" a waiver is in actually absolving you of liability, and would look into it before actually opening a range.
Kynoch
member
What "mess"? Gangs? The only way gangs would impact me personally is if I dressed like a wannabe banger and then tried to enter some clubs or other activity venues that forbid such garb.
Kynoch
member
Very, very true.
And whether some want to admit it or not, being in the presence of someone dressed and looking like a gang banger in line at the grocery versus next to them on the firing line is quite different.
fiftybmg
member
Wearing clothes at the range is a safety thing, more than a fashion statement, or lack thereof.
Range safety comes first.
A piece of hot brass in your sandal or slip slop, down a woman's cleavage, or between the vest and a man's chest, will produce a reaction, and that reaction may not be safe for the other people there, because there is the very real chance of being muzzle-swept or of an AD that may not be downrange.
Not wearing the correct basics may or may not harm the shooter, that is the shooter's problem, but if it may harm someone else, then that is the range's problem, so the range is entitled to insist on a dress code.
It's very possible to encounter shrapnel or a ricochet at a shooting range, a lack of clothing and protective wear doesn't help with that either.
Range safety comes first.
A piece of hot brass in your sandal or slip slop, down a woman's cleavage, or between the vest and a man's chest, will produce a reaction, and that reaction may not be safe for the other people there, because there is the very real chance of being muzzle-swept or of an AD that may not be downrange.
Not wearing the correct basics may or may not harm the shooter, that is the shooter's problem, but if it may harm someone else, then that is the range's problem, so the range is entitled to insist on a dress code.
It's very possible to encounter shrapnel or a ricochet at a shooting range, a lack of clothing and protective wear doesn't help with that either.
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