Pulled over while friend was driving

[Jesse H]

Driving from Houston to Austin, Volvo full of us kids ranging from 17-24. Buddy and I have Texas CHL and are both carrying. He was speeding so we got pulled over by a Trooper. From a first impression, my friends and I are clean cut and nice looking folks, and after you get to know us you'll realize we're also friendly and polite.

Buddy was asked to step out of the vehicle while the rest of us passengers remained in the car. For the most part, the stop went fine except for 2 things which left a bad taste in my mouth.

1. The officer disarmed him (which is perfectly fine although silly IMO for a CHLer), removed the magazine and walked over to our car and placed it in the glove box. The Beretta had one in the pipe. Passenger in front of the glovebox was 17. He returned the magazine after the stop was over, but asked my friend, "are you mad at me?" before returning it (we found that humorous afterwards).

2. The officer ran the serial number on my friend's gun. I suppose there's nothing wrong with doing so, but wouldn't logic tell you that somebody who went thru the trouble to obtain a CHL wouldn't be carrying a stolen gun?

Other than that, the officer wasn't full of pleasantries and had an anti-CHL attitude; asking why he carried a gun, why it was loaded, why it wasn't in the glovebox or the trunk.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Other than that, the officer wasn't full of pleasantries and had an anti-CHL attitude; asking why he carried a gun, why it was loaded, why it wasn't in the glovebox or the trunk."


And the responses to those questions were?

 

[HABU]

Surely Officer Stadanko didnt leave you before he used the word "boy", as in: "why you packin boy?

 

[Jesse H]

Originally posted by Mike Irwin
"Other than that, the officer wasn't full of pleasantries and had an anti-CHL attitude; asking why he carried a gun, why it was loaded, why it wasn't in the glovebox or the trunk."


And the responses to those questions were?

Because I have a CHL sir, it's always loaded sir, I always carry it sir.

 

[Blackhawk]

The trooper should do a bit of debriefing on that with a wise instructor.

What he did was effectively arm an unidentified 17yo without unloading the gun. He just took the mag out, and that doesn't unload or prevent it from firing the chambered round. Even if a gun originally was equipped with a mag safety, they're easy to disable.

Can't believe he didn't sweep the fs passenger with the muzzle, but I guess you would've mentioned it if he did.

He apparently didn't ask you or anybody else if you were armed, which makes his concern about your friend a bit out of place.

Running the SN is perfectly in order. Texas CHLs aren't tied to any particular gun, and there's no telling where your friend's actually came from even though he may have bought it from a supposedly "legit" FFL.

 

[PATH]

I am always polite and smiling regardless of what the trooper or officer says or does. Remeber as in every walk of life there are a few boneheads. Most law enforcement folks are fairly decent and not out to give you a hard time. That is my .02 cents.

 

[rock jock]

"Why do I carry? Well, Officer, for the same reason you do - to protect myself from those that would do me harm."

 

[JMLV]

Report him to his supiors

about his handling of the situtation also report his unsafe gun handling. at the least he may get a chewing out for it.

 

[King]

Maybe he was having a bad day......I don't think the trooper is required to be nice and polite. I do think we should be however. Maybe he's had some bad experiences in the past.

Just chalk it up as exeprience and keep moving, your were correct in all of your actions............

 

[Politically Incorrect]

My feelings are that this officer either doesn't know or doesn't care much about guns since he left a round in the chamber while taking the magazine out.

It's amazing the number of cops and military who have never shot a firearm prior to their service. No years of training of checking whether a gun is loaded or not.

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

Naw, JMLV

The officer doesn't need a chewing out for anything. Then, the "bad taste" would be in HIS mouth for those of us who carry legally. Just my opinion. No offense intended.

KR

 

[Stinger]

Bad gun handling drives me nuts. How dare he take out the mag and leave one in the pipe!

Moron (officer that is)


Stinger

 

[DeputyVaughn]

Trooper may have been having a bad day. Then again he may have just lacked experience in dealing with armed citizens. When I deal with someone who reports that they are legally armed I just tell them if they won't draw their's I won't draw mine. I do watch them more closely (and their passengers) but I don't get into their business, only mine. If I stoped them for a traffic violation that's what I deal with. If Something more suspicious occurs or becomes evident I'll deal with that. I don't understand officers that assume that just because someone rolled a stop sign or is 10 miles over the speed limit that they are habitual criminals with felonious intent. I'll watch my 6 but not at the expence of treating people like criminals.

Scott A. Vaughn

 

[TheEgg]

Bravo!

Great approach Deputy Vaughn -- professional and polite!

 

[Elkslayer]

DeputyVaughn you sound like a great officer.

I suppose that the officer might have had about all of the smiling he coud produce that day, I wouldn't hold it against him but would have informed him of the chambered round though.

 

[King]

DeputyVaughn...I think your view of the world and the process you described is what we're all hoping for.

Personally, I'm always courteous to LEO's whan I deal with them. I'm sure there's also a lot more to LEO's involvement with the public than would commonly thought by the average, law-abiding citizen. I'll bet there are some very awkward situations out there.

 

[Steel]

make sure you direct complaints regarding patrol officers to COs and Chiefs/Captains

 

[cordex]

Actually, Deputy Vaughn sounds kind of like the officer who stopped me a while back. Some of you may remember the thread on TFL " 'Is there a gun in the car?' or, Cordex meets Officer FriendlyCop".
The exchange went something like:

Cop: "Is there a gun in the car?"
Cordex: "Yes, sir. I carry legally."
Cop: "Where is it?"
Cordex: "My right hip."
Cop: "Okay, keep it there and we're all right."

 

[Kevinch]

"Other than that, the officer wasn't full of pleasantries and had an anti-CHL attitude; asking why he carried a gun, why it was loaded, why it wasn't in the glovebox or the trunk."


And the responses to those questions were?

I can tell you what mine was when it happened here in PA during a traffic stop while I was driving alone:

"Officer, out of respect for LE I'll answer: 'because I can'. If I didn't respect you, I'd tell you it's none of your business why I chose to exercise my right to obtain my Concealed Carry License and use it".

I drive thru this town everyday, as my place of employment is within its borders. I had already received the traffic ticket, & the law in PA does not require advising the officer if you are carrying. I told him out of respect for his position without being required to, I didn't appreciate his cocky inquiry & if not in a location I frequent, would have left off the initial phrase in my response & just said "none of your business". I really didn't want the local LE laying for me everytime they saw me driving thru town.

 

[RustyHammer]

walked over to our car and placed it in the glove box.

... an excuse to scope out the glove box for drugs, etc? Just a thought.

 

[DeputyVaughn]

Rusty Hammmer is probably right. Technically that would constitute an illegal search. If he was returning the weapon to your custody he should have given it to your friend. He had no business opening the glovebox without permission or probable cause.

I blew a guys mind just last week doing that with a knife. He was in an apartment where I was looking for another guy on a probation violation warrant. Because he was there I checked his I.D. and patted him for weapons (the apartment was a known drug house.) He was carrying a large folding knife. I kept it while we searched the rest of the rooms. Aparently he thought he'd lost it for good because he acted like he didn't know what to do when I handed his knife to him on our way out and thanked him for his co-operation. I wasn't looking for him, he had no warrants and there were no "plain view" drugs in the apartment. I had done my business, without success unfortunately, but I had done all I could legally do. This guy was probably a doper, but there was no evidence to make a charge on him, therefore no reason to harrass him further. Who knows, he may be more willing to help me at some later time. As the head of our warrant division I need all the public good will I can generate, even from the bad guys.

I'm not telling this to try to make myself look better or get atta boys from anyone. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about Law Enforcement. The right way may be harder, and may cause me to miss out on some arrest, but in 5 years I've never had a case thrown out by a judge. That's what reasonable doubt is about. If you do your job right there will be no room for reasonable doubt.

Scott

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Unfortunately, Jesse, it can be that very sort of logical reasoning that gets LEOs and others into trouble. I think that what you are suggesting is that since your buddy had a CHL, the cop should have green carded him on the issue of the gun, and many cops would have done that. It is their decision. That being said, not all CHL folks are 100%. These folks are in the vast minority, but they are still out there. In the last year, at least one CHL holder has managed to shoot a cop.

No doubt the cop's gun skills were poor, but as far as disarming your buddy and running the serial numbers, you have absolutely no reason to complain about that. As you learned in CHL class, the officer most definitely has the power to do that and subsequently to run the numbers.

In terms of being anti-gun, that is just the way it goes sometimes. Not everybody in Texas thinks everybody else should have guns.

I got stopped early last year for an expired inspection sticker and was stopped by DPS. I did the usual song and dance informing the officer that I had a CHL and was currently armed. He asked where I had the gun and I explained that one was on my right hip and the other in my left front pocket, to which he queried, "You have two guns? Why do you need two guns?" My answer seemed to satisfy him just fine, "I don't have a partner like you do." He checked my DL and wrote me up for the expired sticker and then proceeded to tell me how to handle it with the least possible expense...and I did.

 

[rock jock]

What if the 17 year old had moved it from the glove compartment and shot himself thinking it was unloaded? Who would be liable?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Oh, and I forgot to add that if you felt like your buddy was treated improperly, then have your buddy contact the appropriate department with the information and why he thinks he was treated improperly. The gun handling issue is serious and I am sure the powers that be in the department of the officer would rather he not make that sort of mistake again. Your buddy can either submit the information as and FYI for the department or as a formal complaint if he thinks the officer behaved in a manner that was illegal or put him or his passengers at risk.

 

[45R]

What in the heck was the Trooper thinking, removing the mag and not clearing the chamber.

Poor gun handling skills especially from an individual who carries on a regular basis is completely unacceptable.

I'd report the officer so that he gets a spanking, that way he wouldnt be likely to commit that mistake again. He'll be a little more educated on the likely hood of gun safety and preventing a ND.