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Pump .357; wish list item

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Old Hobo, Nov 19, 2022.

  1. Old Hobo

    Old Hobo Member

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    Pedersoli makes a pump-action rifle in .357 magnum. A 20-inch barrel is available. The price is high, however. I see a $1,500 price-tag on such. Also, some individuals have had trouble with the action on these pumps, I read. Is this true?

    There are tens of thousands of folks who would love to see a clone of the IMI Timber Wolf come back on the market. It came in .357 -- this I know. Did it also come in .44 mag? I don't remember.

    Wouldn't it be grand if some company came out with a handgun caliber pump with a 16" barrel! What a "handy-rifle"! What a "truck rifle"!

    Hey you folk at Henry Arms, hint-hint, nudge-nudge.

    I start this topic hoping that others will have inputs. For instance, does anyone know why an arms manufacturer hasn't already come out with such a pump. I mean, hey, the Timber Wolf was very popular. Me, I like how sleek a pump rifle is and how rapidly it can be fired. If the shooter doesn't short-shuck a round, pumps are rare to jam.

    I'd love to see a bunch of folk pressure a company to come out with one of these.
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  2. ECVMatt

    ECVMatt Member

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    I love the .357 in a rifle and have a few. I would REALY love a good pump! 16" barrel would just be icing on the cake.

    I will Second your request.
     
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  3. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Member

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    I'm in. I'd jump on a Timberwolf if I found an affordable one; 18-inch barrel, IIRC.
     
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  4. dranrab

    dranrab Member

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    I love to see a thoroughly modernized stainless synthetic pump that could accommodate a scope.
     
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  5. film495

    film495 Member

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    I want a .357 rifle, but I'm not thrilled with the offerings. If there was a resonably priced pump, that worked reliably, I'd already own it. Still looking and undecided.
     
  6. dh1633pm

    dh1633pm Contributing Member

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    I don't really want a .357 at all. But I like the rest who posted would like a nice pump pistol caliber carbine. 45 Colt would be nice. Or maybe 44 Mag. Reliable would be the name of the game.
     
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  7. Beck

    Beck Member

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    I would love to have an IMI (Now IWI) Timber Wolf in 357 Mag. They were also made in 44 Mag, both with 18.5" barrel.

    I was looking at the Timber Wolf and lever actions in 357 Mag back in the day. I ended up getting a Rossi 92, with the intention of getting a Timber Wolf later. I never did.

    They were hard to find in the early 90s. They had already been discontinued, but could still be had new if you could find one. Now the used ones I see are too pricey for me. I have an old flyer with pics and specs that I drool over from time to time.

    Used models are going for $2,000.00+ last time I looked.

    So yeah, I wish they would start making them again.

    I love my Rossi 92, but in my experience Pumps are slightly faster than leverguns.

    IMI Timber Wolf1.jpg
     
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  8. Frulk

    Frulk Member

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    Henry seems to be willing to take risks. They did after all chamber the .327FM and bring the Long Ranger out. They’re probably our best AMERICAN manufacturer chance for bringing a .357 Mag pump to market.

    However, wish that they would get away from putting those heavy non-tapered octagon barrels on their rifles.

    Would love to see them issue a straight stocked pump rifle with checkering, case hardened receiver with a tapered octagon barrel. I’d have no problem settling for a round barrel if that’s what was determined would sell.

    Where does the line form?
     
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  9. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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    I've been pondering something along these lines recently.

    Remington used to sell Models 14 1/2 and 25 in lighter chamberings like .32-20, 44-40, 38-40 and .25-20. As much as I like the idea, and the guns seem to work fine, but Pedersen's actions are just too bizarrely complicated for my tastes. Check out the animation in this video:



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that the Colt pump action doesn't have the best reputation for durability and reliability.

    Marlin had a very short lived competitor to the Model 25 called the 27, but good luck finding one and getting parts.

    Marlin27S.jpg

    I don't know how well the IMI Timber Wolf holds up after extended use -- they don't appear to have sold that many. I read somewhere that the action has quite a few things in common with the Remington 870, which sounds good as far as it goes.

    Right now, my gut tells me that if I want a manually-operated PCC, the smart choice would be to go lever action with an Italian 1873 repro. It's slicker than the 1892. The Marlin equivalent might be OK too -- don't know enough about the action to judge.

    How about a Ruger 96 reintroduction in .357?

    I've got a Troy PAR in 223 (California, ugh!) that I actually believe has a pretty decent pump action mechanism. It may be an adaptation of an autoloader, but they don't appear to have introduced major new failure points during the process. Maybe they'll see a market for a PCC version, but even if they did it would more likely be for a cartridge like 9x19.

    TroyPAR.jpg

    The worst criticism I'm aware of has to do with the Troy's aluminum bolt release -- I bought a hardened steel aftermarket replacement for it from a dude in NZ before their gunlaws went nuts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  10. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Rossi might be a likely candidate. They make a .22 pump, with that experience I'm sure they could scale up and make one in .357.
     
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  11. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Member

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    timberwolf.jpg
     
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  12. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    People remember the Remington model 14 and 141, but it younger and smaller brother, the model 25 seams to be mostly forgotten.

    usedgun_101260957_main?pgw=1.jpg
    These were chambered in 25-20 and 32-20 winchester. If you look up the dimensions of those two cartridges they are almost identical in length to a 357 magnum and a tiny bit smaller diameter. I think it would be entirely feasable to rebore the barrel on one of these to 357 magnum. 357 magnum is rated to about 10K psi higher pressure than the 25-20 though so I don't know if 357 magnum would beat up the locking surface of the tilting bolt or not over time. Would probably be better to load it with starting loads which are usually around 30K psi. They share the same general operating mechanism with the model 14.
     
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  13. Beck

    Beck Member

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    Yup, anyone familiar with the Rem 870 will feel right at home with the IMI Timber Wolf. I got to handle one back in the day at a LGS, but never fired one. Had I known they would be so rare with very few in circulation I would have found a way to buy that one then and there in the early 90s.
     
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  14. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    What ever happened to the timber wolf? I thoght that would be a real winner when it was introduced.
     
  15. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Could an 870 .410 be beefed up for revolver ammo?
    .45 LC, sure, magnums, I dunno.
    A pistolized Win 1200 with its rotating bolt head and barrel extension would hold them.

    I don't think you want to pay for a return to Remington/Pedersen or Marlin/Hepburn designs.

    If IWI found Timberwolf tooling in the back room, it would be straightforward.

    But is there a market, short of a Draconian AWB?
    Comparable lever actions sell on a century of western movies and 35 years of SASS competition.
     
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  16. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    I would want Ruger to do it and use a rotary box mag. I would want it to be as sleek as possible.
     
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  17. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Member

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    I think you'd get more rounds in a tube than in one of Ruger's rotary mags.
     
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  18. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    I was looking at it from the easy to unload safely standpoint.
     
  19. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

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    A hot loaded .357 out of a carbine length barrel can be reasonably effective. About like a heavier bulleted .30 carbine. Not nearly as potent as a proper .30-30 but decent nonetheless.

    I have no experience with the IMI Timberwolf but understand most pump action .357s are unreliable. I doubt there is any market for one in today’s world. Something like a .350 Legend AR-15 makes far more sense from a marketing standpoint.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  20. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    The rifle you are talking about is a reproduction of the Colt Lightning rifle. As I recall they were made by three different manufacturers. Pedersoli offered the best of the three, the other two could be troublesome and often did not feed well. Sorry, I can't recall right now who made the other two versions.

    When these replicas first hit the Cowboy Action market, the thinking was they would take over and supplant the lever action rifles that most CAS shooters use. It never happened, the Colt Lightning replicas never became very popular with CAS shooters.

    My thought is that with a lever gun, while one hand works the lever, the other hand holds the barrel very steady. With a pump action rifle, because the forward hand it operating the slide, the muzzle tends to wobble around more. This became very apparent to me when shooting Trap doubles the other day with my pump action Winchester Model 12 shotgun. It was easy for my sight picture to wobble when I was shooting at the second target.

    Here is a video that will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about the original Colt Lightning rifles. Notice what Ian says at the end about how many Colt Lightnings were produced vs how many Winchester lever guns.



    And here is a video by Hickok 45 shooting one of the Persoli replicas of the Colt Lightning. Notice his rifle is chambered for 45 Colt. The originals were only chambered for 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40:

    https://www.google.com/search?clien...te=ive&vld=cid:117018b3,vid:LNX8MXrWLgE,st:55


    By the way, I own a bunch of Winchester 22 Rimfire pump rifles, never felt the urge to get a replica of the Colt Lightning.
     
  21. captain awesome

    captain awesome Member

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    I have two of the Pedersoli pump actions. One in 45 Colt, and one in 357 mag. Both are gorgeous rifles. The 45 Colt is absolutely fantastic. It's Accurate, super fast and is a blast to shoot. The 357 mag is the same but really picky about ammo; it won't cycle several bullet profiles, and gets caught up trying to chamber. Then you have to back it up slightly and try again, it will usually chamber on the second "partial pump".
     
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  22. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Early on, when 5 or 6 Carbine shots were enough, a guy here used a Marlin 27 pump, .25-20. That thing was a snake, fast and reliable, accurate enough. But it only has a half magazine, slip tube at that. So when Carbine round count went to 10 to fill up the lever actions, with an occasional reload on the clock, it was obsolete.
     
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  23. Gordon

    Gordon Contributing Member

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    MachIV shooter has a 32-20 pump, they are slick, but not allowed in cowboy shooting.
     
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  24. trekker73

    trekker73 Member

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    357 lever from a carbine is much more powerful than 30 carbine. 158 grain bullets at 1800fps are a breeze and 'hot loaded' as you say, you can get close to 2000fps aka 1400ftlbs.

    The 30-30 is more powerful yes, particularly at range, but shoot a 357 cal 158XTP at 1900fps or 357 180SJHP at 1700fps into a hog, I doubt you will see much difference. At least under 100 yards anyway
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
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  25. tark

    tark Member

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    Hi, Dave. I've got a model; 25 in 25-20. It holds ten in the magazine and is about minute of orange at fifty yards./ The bore is not the best.

    The rifle's action needs to be pumped rather vigorously. It is not the smoothest pump action rifle in the rack but it is very reliable. It is very light and is a takedown, but like all of Pederson's takedown pump rifles, it tends to loosten up after a few shots. A tightening of the takedown screw every few shots is a good idea.
     
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