Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

Holy cow hinz that's cookin. Will be interesting to see how it does for accuracy.
 
Well thanks to cobalt I have found a new love for my childhood Red Ryder. I’ve spent the last few months restoring it and I think it came out pretty great. Thank you cobalt for the springs. Sorry I don’t have a before picture I always forget to take one. (my wife hates that I forget that too) Oh and I’m a lefty so moving the saddle ring helps keep it out of the way.
Very nice!

Did you close the saddle ring holes on the left side? If yes, how did you do it?

I can’t read the medallion. Is that the 50th anniversary, or another edition.

Was this your first BB gun from your youth? I still have my first one. It’s a real treasure to me.

Well done!
 
Very nice!

Did you close the saddle ring holes on the left side? If yes, how did you do it?

I can’t read the medallion. Is that the 50th anniversary, or another edition.

Was this your first BB gun from your youth? I still have my first one. It’s a real treasure to me.

Well done!
Thank you, Yes I did close up the holes with a little bit of weld and body filler. Made a new saddle ring mount out of brass. I work in a paint and body shop so this was a side project. It is the 50th anniversary edition. This is my first BB gun my father bought it right after he found out he was having a boy.
 
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Well thanks to cobalt I have found a new love for my childhood Red Ryder. I’ve spent the last few months restoring it and I think it came out pretty great. Thank you cobalt for the springs. Sorry I don’t have a before picture I always forget to take one. (my wife hates that I forget that too) Oh and I’m a lefty so moving the saddle ring helps keep it out of the way.
The MV you mentioned are sadly about the norm for new guns from Daisy. I've heard the velocity is low so that it won't break skin but I'm not going to find out!

Your gun turned out great! I especially like the brass butt plate, and the walnut makes your refinishing really show through. Good job and a real heirloom. And that it's your first gun given to you by your Dad makes it even more so. I'm proud to have one of my springs in it.
 
The MV you mentioned are sadly about the norm for new guns from Daisy. I've heard the velocity is low so that it won't break skin but I'm not going to find out!

Your gun turned out great! I especially like the brass butt plate, and the walnut makes your refinishing really show through. Good job and a real heirloom. And that it's your first gun given to you by your Dad makes it even more so. I'm proud to have one of my springs in it.
Thank you sir
 
Thank you, Yes I did close up the holes with a little bit of weld and body filler. Made a new saddle ring mount out of brass. I work in a paint and body shop so this was a side project. It is the 50th anniversary edition. This is my first BB my father bought it for me right after he found out he was having a boy.
Thanks for the info! Another question, what color is the paint or blueing? I’ve been trying to come up with something that looks like the old blue versions of daisy. I striped and cold blued one and it looks nice. Just would appreciate knowing what you did. Thx!
 
Thanks for the info! Another question, what color is the paint or blueing? I’ve been trying to come up with something that looks like the old blue versions of daisy. I striped and cold blued one and it looks nice. Just would appreciate knowing what you did. Thx!
No problem, Ask all the questions you want. The blackish blue is a color I made up at work. It started out as a GM black (paint code is 8555) and I added a lot of blue to it. I was trying to go for the blued look but in the right light it’s a faint purple. But all in all In came out well
 
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Being disgusted with the accuracy of my Daisy’s. I Decided to attempt to measure the bore IDs. Got out my set of “numbered” drill bits.
Found the shank of the #15 bits just will slip in with a bit of lube. The shank mics 0.1788”. This was a new RRider. The “match grade” daisy bbs mics 0.173/0.174”——couple of thousands bigger than their std bb.
Measure the bore of my “Asian” co2 pistols and I get a slip fit at 0.175”. These guns are very accurate with the same daisy bbs.
Cut to the chase, anyone make an “oversized” bb? Or where can u get tight bore daisy shot tube ? Thx for listening
 
Being disgusted with the accuracy of my Daisy’s. I Decided to attempt to measure the bore IDs. Got out my set of “numbered” drill bits.
Found the shank of the #15 bits just will slip in with a bit of lube. The shank mics 0.1788”. This was a new RRider. The “match grade” daisy bbs mics 0.173/0.174”——couple of thousands bigger than their std bb.
Measure the bore of my “Asian” co2 pistols and I get a slip fit at 0.175”. These guns are very accurate with the same daisy bbs.
Cut to the chase, anyone make an “oversized” bb? Or where can u get tight bore daisy shot tube ? Thx for listening
Your RR bore ID measurement mirrors what I got when I measured a few of my 1938B shot tube IDs using a Starrett hole gauge set and a micrometer. So good job on that!

The Daisy Match BBs are the largest I've seen so far at ~0.174". Umarex were next largest, ~94% averaged right at 1.73” diameter. This can change from lot to lot but are representative just the same. Daisy zinc plated from WM had most at 0.173" but there were more outside that measurement than the Umarex, but the cost is a lot better for the "regular" Daisy zinc plated BBs.
I mic'd 50 Daisy Precision Max zinc plated from WM:

0.1710- 3
0.1715-1
0.1720-13
0.1725- 13
0.1730- 18
0.1735- 1
0.1740- 1

The only "tight bore" shot tube I know of is made by Lothar Walther, it's a smoothbore that measures 0.175" ID with a choke at the muzzle. It costs about $160.00. The next is the 499 shot tube at about 0.176" and no choke.
 
Dave, you have come to the same conclusions that Cobalt and I have. The new RR tube are simply not tight enough. To much air can get past the bb on its way out so mv is lost. Accuracy is lost as th bb careens from side to side and up and down, who knows which way it will head as it exits the tube!

Cobalt is contemplating a way to “choke” the rr tubes. I am very interested in that.

I have been having excellent results with splicing 499 tubes together to overcome some of the problems that 0.002 extra dia causes. I wish we could get the 499 tube material blank and in longer lengths. Anyone know people at Daisy? Hint,hint!

I’m very intrigued with the Lothar Walther tube. I just looked at them again. Price increase! I could see a very easy installation in a 499, or the 105/499 single shot. I believe there is great potential. It would be a greater challenge to install in a repeater due to the 0.625” dia. There’s not room for the bb to fit between the LW tube and the shroud, so a different scheme for feeding the bbs to the abutment would be in order. I’ve considered something like the feeder on a model 25, attached to the top of the shroud, feeding directly to the abutment, spring loaded so the vertical shaking action could be dispensed with! At this point, the LW tubes are out of my reach. I’m certainly willing to dicuss doing the machine work if someone really wants to take the development risk.

Also contemplating the “hop up” as it could relate to these Daisy’s. My latest theory has to do with the magnetic field, rather than a rubber insert of some nature. I think Daisy, either intentionally or accidentally, introduced the spin effect into the 499 design. It is possible that the renowned accuracy is a combination of the tube dia and the spin effect imparted by have the magnet offset at the bottom of the tube.

Anyone every look inside a 499 to see what the factory position of the magnet is ? I’m betting that is at 6 o’clock or 180 deg. I wonder if one could place it at 90 deg and have it head right or left, not sure which. More contemplation required.

Also the Manet location in the 1938b abutment is at 180deg. I’m considering replacing the stock magnet with a stronger one to see what happens. Who knows.....

All input appreciated!
 
Being disgusted with the accuracy of my Daisy’s. I Decided to attempt to measure the bore IDs. Got out my set of “numbered” drill bits.
Found the shank of the #15 bits just will slip in with a bit of lube. The shank mics 0.1788”. This was a new RRider. The “match grade” daisy bbs mics 0.173/0.174”——couple of thousands bigger than their std bb.
Measure the bore of my “Asian” co2 pistols and I get a slip fit at 0.175”. These guns are very accurate with the same daisy bbs.
Cut to the chase, anyone make an “oversized” bb? Or where can u get tight bore daisy shot tube ? Thx for listening
Cobalts bb size numbers certainly indicate why , when using the Walmart daisy bbs, you get a wider spread on the chrono #’s. More consistent with Match grade”avanti” bbs, but the high # is often similar. I usually shoot a bunch of Walmart bbs, then switch to 10 rounds of match grade to establish baselines.
 
I’d probably even use bacon grease if that what I had handy!

Just a thought... Bacon grease is going to be salty.

Lubricious, but corrosive. I have used unsalted animal fats before though, for things that seem to be appropriate. They seem to work fine.
 
Just a thought... Bacon grease is going to be salty.

Lubricious, but corrosive. I have used unsalted animal fats before though, for things that seem to be appropriate. They seem to work fine.
LOL! My preference would lean toward something a bit less tasty!
 
Yeah, the bacon grease gets saved and earmarked for frying eggs. Hamburger grease, on the other hand...
That’s how I grew up! Had to mostly give up eating some of my favorite foods! I worked, for a number of years, designing, fabricating, installing ss equipment for meat processing. In the production facilities, all the lubrication had to be “food grade” kind of “lard in a grease gun”.
 
Y'all making me hungry! lol

Anyone every look inside a 499 to see what the factory position of the magnet is ? I’m betting that is at 6 o’clock or 180 deg. I wonder if one could place it at 90 deg and have it head right or left, not sure which. More contemplation required.
If you look at the 499 abutment, you can see two small indentations cast into the body, meant to receive the staking done to factory guns. FWIW I never stake the abutments in any of my guns, be they actual 499s or the hybrids because, why? The abutment is a hard shove to get it in place, it has a tight fitting seal and gets hammered by the piston every shot cycle- it's not going anywhere. Although I suppose in some cases there could be enough play developed over time that the abutment could move when the gun is cycled and for a match gun, that could ruin precision and accuracy.

I just looked and it would appear that, at least on the two abutments I have on hand, that the magnet is located dead on 6 o'clock.
 
Y'all making me hungry! lol

If you look at the 499 abutment, you can see two small indentations cast into the body, meant to receive the staking done to factory guns. FWIW I never stake the abutments in any of my guns, be they actual 499s or the hybrids because, why? The abutment is a hard shove to get it in place, it has a tight fitting seal and gets hammered by the piston every shot cycle- it's not going anywhere. Although I suppose in some cases there could be enough play developed over time that the abutment could move when the gun is cycled and for a match gun, that could ruin precision and accuracy.

I just looked and it would appear that, at least on the two abutments I have on hand, that the magnet is located dead on 6 o'clock.
I agree. Thx!
 
Dave, you have come to the same conclusions that Cobalt and I have. The new RR tube are simply not tight enough. To much air can get past the bb on its way out so mv is lost. Accuracy is lost as th bb careens from side to side and up and down, who knows which way it will head as it exits the tube!

Cobalt is contemplating a way to “choke” the rr tubes. I am very interested in that.

I have been having excellent results with splicing 499 tubes together to overcome some of the problems that 0.002 extra dia causes. I wish we could get the 499 tube material blank and in longer lengths. Anyone know people at Daisy? Hint,hint!

I’m very intrigued with the Lothar Walther tube. I just looked at them again. Price increase! I could see a very easy installation in a 499, or the 105/499 single shot. I believe there is great potential. It would be a greater challenge to install in a repeater due to the 0.625” dia. There’s not room for the bb to fit between the LW tube and the shroud, so a different scheme for feeding the bbs to the abutment would be in order. I’ve considered something like the feeder on a model 25, attached to the top of the shroud, feeding directly to the abutment, spring loaded so the vertical shaking action could be dispensed with! At this point, the LW tubes are out of my reach. I’m certainly willing to dicuss doing the machine work if someone really wants to take the development risk.

Also contemplating the “hop up” as it could relate to these Daisy’s. My latest theory has to do with the magnetic field, rather than a rubber insert of some nature. I think Daisy, either intentionally or accidentally, introduced the spin effect into the 499 design. It is possible that the renowned accuracy is a combination of the tube dia and the spin effect imparted by have the magnet offset at the bottom of the tube.

Anyone every look inside a 499 to see what the factory position of the magnet is ? I’m betting that is at 6 o’clock or 180 deg. I wonder if one could place it at 90 deg and have it head right or left, not sure which. More contemplation required.

Also the Manet location in the 1938b abutment is at 180deg. I’m considering replacing the stock magnet with a stronger one to see what happens. Who knows.....

All input appreciated!
 
Choking the tube would be good, some high $$ pellet guns use it. Finding the tooling would be the issue.
Back in my “working” life, I used hard chrome a couple times to solve manufacturing problems. Thinking of chrome in the bore. Tighten the last 6” or so, just ahead of the air tube. I would think any chrome shop could pull this off. Got any old car rebuilders with us ? They’d know some shops.
Be the easy way to reduce “slop” in the bore. Thoughts/comments ?
 
That's a very interesting concept that need to be looked into further. I don't know of a place offhand but there are bound to be one that would entertain the idea. Many such shops work on a per lot basis, I don't know if any will do just a tube or three but like I said, needs to be looked into and thanks for bringing the idea up!.

FWIW, Walther airgun chokes are done right at the muzzle so the last thing the projectile 'sees' is the choke before leaving the tube.
 
Dave, you have come to the same conclusions that Cobalt and I have. The new RR tube are simply not tight enough. To much air can get past the bb on its way out so mv is lost. Accuracy is lost as th bb careens from side to side and up and down, who knows which way it will head as it exits the tube!

Cobalt is contemplating a way to “choke” the rr tubes. I am very interested in that.

I have been having excellent results with splicing 499 tubes together to overcome some of the problems that 0.002 extra dia causes. I wish we could get the 499 tube material blank and in longer lengths. Anyone know people at Daisy? Hint,hint!

I’m very intrigued with the Lothar Walther tube. I just looked at them again. Price increase! I could see a very easy installation in a 499, or the 105/499 single shot. I believe there is great potential. It would be a greater challenge to install in a repeater due to the 0.625” dia. There’s not room for the bb to fit between the LW tube and the shroud, so a different scheme for feeding the bbs to the abutment would be in order. I’ve considered something like the feeder on a model 25, attached to the top of the shroud, feeding directly to the abutment, spring loaded so the vertical shaking action could be dispensed with! At this point, the LW tubes are out of my reach. I’m certainly willing to dicuss doing the machine work if someone really wants to take the development risk.

Also contemplating the “hop up” as it could relate to these Daisy’s. My latest theory has to do with the magnetic field, rather than a rubber insert of some nature. I think Daisy, either intentionally or accidentally, introduced the spin effect into the 499 design. It is possible that the renowned accuracy is a combination of the tube dia and the spin effect imparted by have the magnet offset at the bottom of the tube.

Anyone every look inside a 499 to see what the factory position of the magnet is ? I’m betting that is at 6 o’clock or 180 deg. I wonder if one could place it at 90 deg and have it head right or left, not sure which. More contemplation required.

Also the Manet location in the 1938b abutment is at 180deg. I’m considering replacing the stock magnet with a stronger one to see what happens. Who knows.....

All input appreciated!
Regarding magnets and hop up, what about using a strong rare earth magnet at the top of the muzzle end of the tube?

Also, what would a ring magnet do for accuracy if the magnet were placed at the muzzle end. I'm wondering if that could make the BB leave the tube the same way each shot as compared to randomly exiting the tube?
 
??? I don’t have a clue—-concerning magnets (and many other things). Bought some last year for a G’kids science project. Couldn’t believe how powerful they were. Be a fun thing to test.
Think I’ve figured how to test the hopup using “rubber” insert. I’ve got an older 1938 (needs rebuilt) with the screw out shot tube. Easy to get to. I’m going to cut a notch just ahead of the air tube when extended. Duct tape/ zip tie insert into place for testing.
The gun needs plunger spring Assy replaced. Hoping one of my newer bucks will drop in ?? Thoughts.
 
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