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Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

Discussion in 'Air Guns' started by cobalt327, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Weighed the gun this evening and it is 5.3 lbs.
    10 shots through the chrony went from the 1st shot at 474.8fps. to 478.6fps. Average was 477 even.
    Looking forward to spending some time with it this winter and seeing how it shoots.

    chrony.jpeg
     
  2. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    That thing is a freaking HAMMER! And very consistent to boot.

    5.3 lbs. is an ideal weight IMHO- enough to be uber stable when bench shooting, yet not too heavy to shoot comfortably offhand. As a point of reference a stock unmodified 1938B 'Ryder with no BBs in it weighs 2.48 lbs. and my maple stocked 1938B is 3.5 lbs, also empty. A Daisy 753 SSP target rifle is 5.8 lbs. and an 853 is 5.36 lbs., both with wood stocks.
     
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  3. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    I was hoping for something in the five pound range so it worked out pretty good. Should improve the accuracy being more stable. Don't know why but I still get a kick out of listening to the BB go down the tube when loading. Simple mind I guess.
     
  4. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I do it too. The Avantis seem to take forever. But that nice clean *click* when it gets to the bottom... sweet. IIRC, you made some changes to the abutment/magnet setup didn't you? Is there a post where you outlined what all you did to this 499 "Frankengun"?
     
  5. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    I should put one together. I think the good parts start on page #36. I'll have to put something together this winter.
    This is what comes to mind at the moment.
    Enlarged abutment opening, two magnets, RR seal and spring, extended the shot tube, spring spacer with one washer at each end of the spring, and rubber damper on the shot tube.
     
  6. Kookla

    Kookla Member

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    Has anyone had luck getting rid of the spring buzz from the 499? I love shooting mine, but the noise it makes when it fires drives me bonkers at times.
     
  7. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Applying a light coating of grease to the spring helps to damp the vibration but it may shoot just a little slower.
     
  8. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Most anything you do is going to negatively affect the velocity. The weak factory spring will not tolerate much in the way of modifications.
     
  9. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    To reduce oil/grease migration into the bore, I sprayed the spring with “white lithium” lubricant. Ok so far.
     
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  10. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    That grease is light enough it probably won't cause you any problems. I tried using open gear lube which is really thick and it slowed the velocity way down.
     
  11. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Using the discount code VELOCITY-19 will get you $25 off at Pyramyd Air. I just used it to get 5,000 Marksman BBs w/5 speed loaders for ~$11 total but it works on many other things there besides BBs.
     
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  12. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    In case anyone needs some, I have a fresh batch of HP springs. PM me here or email me at cobalt327 at hotmail dot com for details.

    And thank you all.
     
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  13. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Give me another couple hundred BBs and keep the speed loaders, the city dump is refusing to take anymore foe gods sake.
     
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  14. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Occasionally I will contact the Daisy Museum for info on a gun made before the numbers could be read by anyone. Today the museum director Joe Murfin emailed a response to such a question about my model 104- the gun I have mentioned a number of times in this thread that started me modifying Daisy BB guns. Through a cool bit of serendipity it turns out the 104 was made on my 12th birthday.

    And now for something completely different: After reading a little about the single pump smoothbore Daisy model 1910, I thought it might be fun to see if it could be modified to shoot harder than the ~300-310 fps it does stock. I got a diagram from Daisy CS and the 1910 looked a whole lot like an 880 internally. I have experience with the 880 so I went ahead and bought a 1910 and true to form, it shot 310 fps using Daisy zinc plated BBs. This just isn't enough to reliably hit the targets I have set up in the BY so I ordered a compression tube for the 880, the idea being the 880 tube might allow for a stroke increase to boost the power of the single stroke 1910. Nope- the 880 tube is actually shorter than the 1910. I did fill the dish in the top of the piston but it really didn't help.

    While it was apart I verified the 1910's intake "valve" was nothing more than a plastic plug that replaced the valve an 880 uses to make the 880 a multi pumper. So I removed the 1910's plug and replaced it with the seal, spring and abutment used in the 880 to turn it into a multi pumper. Part number for these parts is 169910-000 Chamber seal kit, cost is $1.00 from Daisy. Everything fit and after reassembling it I tested the MV.

    The new MV in fps is as follows:

    Daisy Model 1910 in SPP mode
    Daisy Zinc
    ............Marksman
    310........................335

    Daisy Model 1910 MV fps in MPP mode
    Pumps
    ...Daisy Zinc..........Marksman.........880 w/Daisy zinc
    1
    . ............246.....................285.....................262
    2..............361.....................397.....................400
    3..............436.....................466.....................475
    4..............479.....................521.....................535
    5..............525.....................554.....................590
    10............610.....................656.....................735
    NOTE- 2 or 3 pumps is the sweet spot and the majority of the time I use 2.

    The Marksman BBs made quite a difference in MV in this 1910! Nothing was done to tighten the headspace and I know there’s a lot more than needed, so next time I go back in it I will set the headspace tighter. I expect to gain some MV but how much remains to be seen. It would be cool if it shot as hard per pump as a new 880, but that might be asking a lot.

    It’s now quite usable at 2 pumps, and fortunately accuracy didn’t go away with the increase in MV. Even though it’s no longer a SPP, the difference in one and two pumps just isn’t a deal killer for me. And the ES is a lot tighter than when it was pumped more than once with the SPP valve in it. Oh, I also replaced the short buttstock with one from a new production 880 for more LOP.

    So some may be wondering why bother with modifying a 1910 when an 880 will give higher MV per pump than the modified 1910? The reason for me is, the lever stroke of the 1910 is easier and quicker due to the short length and linkage ratio of the lever. It's just a flick of the wrist compared to the 880. The 880’s pump arm is much longer and travels a lot further per stroke to make the 880 lever effort more manageable at higher pump numbers. On the other hand, the 1910 at 10 pumps is downright stiff to pump and I do not recommend it on a regular basis.

    jjEhLei.jpg
     
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  15. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Interesting post. Thanks.
    Have you had any experience with the Daisy 107? Don't know why but I think I'm going to keep my eyes open for one.
     
  16. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I was also curious about the 107 so I bought one in 2017. I'm not positive but it might have gotten a mention in this thread. Mine wasn't a powerhouse but the gun was a little over 60 years old, although it was in very good condition cosmetically. It turned out to be a very collectable 107, having an "A" prefix: REG. NO. A022586. According to info found in An Encyclopedia of Daisy Plymouth Guns by Gary Garber, 107s having an A prefix were the very last to be made in the Plymouth MI facility prior to the move to Rogers AR and were about the hardest 107 to find. So instead of taking it apart and modifying it I sold it for what I paid for it to a guy at Daisy Talk who has a stellar collection of 107 models, of which there are something like 15 different variations. My gun and one other variation that was made in Canada were all he was missing. No idea if he's ever found a Canadian 107, but he was stoked to get mine!

    I had heard people say the 107's trombone cocking action made them very hard to cock because there's no mechanical advantage in the linkage like the No. 25 but it really wasn't that bad. Maybe my spring was tired? Anyway, overall a neat gun but not the hammer I had hoped for. I never ran across another one for anything approaching a good price that I wouldn't feel bad about modifying so that's the extent of my experience with the 107.
     
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  17. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I've had the model 25's (you know that) and weren't particularly impressed with them. I do like pump rifles and thought I'd like the try the 107 sometime. Gives me reason to check out antique stores and flea markets. :)
    Thanks again.
     
  18. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    Here are some photos from Daisy Talk member 'jackdog' showing the internal parts. It's different than most other Daisys, that's for sure. I think it must have the longest air tube of any Daisy, too! Might want to try to make sure the air tube isn't missing or broken when you inspect potential guns to buy. Guns made before about 1955 will have leather seals (no "OIL HERE" hole), newer will be synthetic (will have oil hole). The trigger cross screw does the job of the spring retainer.

    107 DISASSEMBLY 1.jpg

    107 DISASSEMBLY 2.jpg

    107 DISASSEMBLY 3.jpg

    Good luck on your quest, hope you find something cool!
     
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  19. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    You just posted more information than I would have ever found. Thank you.
    I'm not in a big rush but will be on the lookout for one. Who knows something nice just might turn up. :)
     
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  20. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I got an email from Daisy, said it was because I had signed up for their newsletter but I can't recall having done so. In any event, they offered a deal on a model 1999: $10 off and free shipping. Made the gun cost $30 to my door so I went ahead and bought one and it just came today.

    As has been covered already, the model 1999 is basically a 1938B w/o the thong attachment and with a molded camo stock, fiber optic front sight and a large hoop plastic lever. LOP is the same as the 1938B which was a bit of a relief as I didn't need a too-short stock to have to replace right away! (Shane, you're not totally off the hook- I still need a stock for the 99B mwink.gif .)

    Stock, my 1999's MV was below-par at 250 fps with Daisy zinc BBs and 264 fps with Marksman BBs. Being a new gun (June 2019), it has the anti bear trap and stiff trigger that needed to go and of course it needed a HP spring. I also replaced the large hoop plastic lever with a metal lever for durability. Replacing the spring got it shooting a lot better: 344/367 fps using Daisy zinc/Marksman BBs respectively. This gun is shooting to poa so thankfully there's no problem with needing windage adjustment. I hope Daisy has taken steps to make their BB guns more accurate, but the reality is it's probably still the luck of the draw.

    I've only got a few dozen shots on it so far, but even at this early stage I like it a lot. Not having the 2 square holes staring at me from where the saddle ring used to be attached is a bigger plus than I thought it would be. So now I'm torn between leaving it as-is or replacing the powerplant and stock with the parts that are now in my "#1" Red Ryder. It would be a much easier decision if the 1999 was shooting a few inches left or right, but with it shooting to POA I'm really hesitant to mess with it. I guess for the time being I'll shoot it like it is, let it break in real good, and make that decision later on down the road.


     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
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  21. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    WARNING ABOUT POSSIBLE SCAM 80TH ANNIVERSARY RED RYDERS BEING SOLD ON EBAY

    There are at least 2 sellers on sewerbay who are selling so-called "x of 1000" numbered 80th. Anniversary Red Ryders. These sellers will not post or send photos showing the numbers, and according to both the Daisy Museum and Daisy Outdoors, no such 80th. models were ever released by Daisy.

    The following is my contact with Daisy Outdoors:

    I am writing today in hopes that you can clear up what seems to be a disagreement as to whether there is, or is not a limited edition run of numbered (x of 1,000) 80th Anniversary Daisy Red Ryders. There have been guns appearing on eBay that claim to be these so-called limited edition guns but the sellers have thus far been unable to produce any photos of the forearm area showing the numbers, and the Daisy Museum has said there are no such guns, to the best of their knowledge.

    Can you deny or confirm the existence of such a gun?

    Thank you for your time and assistance with this.

    Regards, Mark



    Customer Service, Daisy <[email protected]>
    Mon 11/4/2019 9:37 AM

    Mark,

    Thank you for contacting Daisy. I can assure you that 25,000 model 1938B’s 80th anniversary gun were made and we did not put such number on any of the stock or forearms. They were a Walmart exclusive only. I would not purchase anything from eBay as we have seen those guns being modified to their own liking.

    Thank you,
    Daisy Outdoor Products/ Gamo/ BSA/ First Nature/ Winchester
    Consumer Services
    479-636-1200
     
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  22. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Seems like the next thing to do is send that reply to fleabay and see if they will do anything about it. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  23. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    I think he's talking about this thread in addition to any sort of added engraving or fallacious serials.
     
  24. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Member

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    I don't know, I took "those guns" as being the 80th.s, but I could be wrong. I mean, it's not like anyone here is listing modified guns and touting them as an authentic Daisy 'special editions'. But that's not to say they may not approve of our shenanigans.
     
  25. Cvans

    Cvans Member

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    Are U trying to tell me that someone would take a Daisy BB gun and modify it in some way. That's hard to believe :what:
     
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