Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

[Eddie Booth]

I'd like to try some on my modified 499 to see if they would improve the accuracy before I start detuning it. At the higher velocities that I'm shooting it might not. Don't expect hand outs and would be more than willing to reimburse you for them.

I'll be happy to send you some. I've got a lot going on for the next week or so, but if you'll send me your address, I'll get some out to you as soon as possible.

 

[Cvans]

Thank you. I've sent you a private message.

 

[Cvans]

What kind of consistency/ accuracy are you getting with that set-up?

Not a good as I was hoping for. Unfortunately I'm starting to think it has something to do with the higher velocity of a very light projectile and the lack of spin being introduce to it. This is just what I'm thinking at this point and has not been substantiated. BB's shot out of the 499 at lower velocities are very accurate and most if not all Olympic air guns are operating under 700 fps.
I don't have a stock 499 spring for this gun so I can't test that. I do have some tacky grease that I can use to drop the velocity and will try that next to see if it helps with the accuracy it the powder coated BB's don't help.

 

[Eddie Booth]

Being a part of the reloading community, I'm accustomed to doing ladder tests to determine the power level a particular load is happiest at. There are many variables but velocity is certainly one of them. We're dealing with air instead of powder, but the theory is still the same.

 

[cobalt327]

That's good advice. I think people have a tendency to overuse lube. A little is good, but too much is bad.

I ordered one of your springs, and I'm looking forward to making my Daisy all it can be.

Thanks, I'm sure you'll enjoy the difference it makes. If you have any questions, I check my email more often than eBay messages, so feel free to email me at cobalt327 at hotmail dot com and we'll sort it out, no problem.

Mark

 

[cobalt327]

Not a good as I was hoping for. Unfortunately I'm starting to think it has something to do with the higher velocity of a very light projectile and the lack of spin being introduce to it. This is just what I'm thinking at this point and has not been substantiated. BB's shot out of the 499 at lower velocities are very accurate and most if not all Olympic air guns are operating under 700 fps.
I don't have a stock 499 spring for this gun so I can't test that. I do have some tacky grease that I can use to drop the velocity and will try that next to see if it helps with the accuracy it the powder coated BB's don't help.

Have you experimented with the hold? There is increased recoil, and that can sometimes be compensated for by using the so-called artillery hold, or some variation to whatever hold that is not giving adequate results.

 

[Cvans]

Have you experimented with the hold?

I have. Sounds like you've been hanging around some of the other airgun web sites. Most people aren't aware of the difference holding an airgun can make in the accuracy of a spring piston gun.

 

[cobalt327]

Yeah, I researched BB gun accuracy a while back and ran across the artillery hold deal. There are some other things that seem to hold up. Like more weight = less felt recoil and can reduce barrel movement, a faster lock time can help, a tighter fit of the BB to the shot tube helps accuracy as well as MV, the type of sights can make a big difference, et cetera. Probably the most overlooked things are keeping the shot tube free of oil, and the fit of the BB to the shot tube. The first is easy, the second requires expensive (relatively speaking) BBs that have to be ordered online. If I shot off the bench or for a score, I'd be more into these things. But for the most part, I shoot offhand with open sights at various hanging targets scattered around the property. So I can make do just fine with the standard Daisy zinc plated BBs from Walmart.

 

[Eddie Booth]

I just got a new Buck and a new adult Red Ryder. Neither of them are throwing flyers like my 2 older RRs do. I'm wondering if they are built to tighter tolerances now.

Here's a look at the latest batch of powder coated BBs.

 

[Cvans]

What BB's are you starting out with?

 

[Eddie Booth]

Daisy Precision max are the only ones I've shot. The same ones that were shooting poorly in my old RRs are shooting great in my new Daisy Buck and Adult RR.

 

[cobalt327]

Chances are, the old 1938B shot tubes are made of tubing having a visible seam. These are not nearly as good in my experience as the seamless shot tube. Another difference is the seamless tubes are crowned. The seamed tubes aren't. You can look through the hole of the front barrel plug to see what you have.

Photos show seamed tubes above seamless tubes, the differences are obvious.

 

[Grayrock]

Where are the seamless tubes available? I'm ready to tighten up my groups. Tired of the Earl Campbell results* I've been getting.


*Fred Akers' playbook my freshman year at UT was "Earl run right", "Earl run left", "Earl run up the middle"

 

[Eddie Booth]

I'm pretty sure all the new stock parts from Daisy should be seamless. The 2 new Daisys I have shoot straight as an arrow.

 

[Cvans]

I just got a new Buck and a new adult Red Ryder.

Where did you pick these up at? Would be fun to get on and compare one with my gun. Maybe I did a whole lot of work for nothing.

 

[Eddie Booth]

I got the Buck at Walmart for $17. The Adult RR came from Amazon. It was around $50.

 

[Cvans]

Thanks. Is there much difference in the length of pull on those two guns? I'm 6'2" is why I'm asking.
The accuracy about the same?

 

[Eddie Booth]

There's a huge difference in length of pull. The Buck is definitely made with kids in mind. The Adult RR fits my 6'1 250lb frame just fine.

I like the straight lever of the Buck better and it seems to have a little better trigger pull than the adult RR but I really can't tell any difference in accuracy.

 

[Cvans]

Thank you. When you live out here in Buffalo flats it's nice to have an idea what your getting into.

 

[Eddie Booth]

No problem, I'm happy to help any way I can.

 

[NRADAVE]

Hi guys, looking at some of the recent talk. Some info on BBs, the largest one I’ve found is still available on Amazon. “Marksman” is the brand. They’re expensive, $13/1000, about what I used to pay for a brick of cheap .22s. But they’re several thousands larger in dia than the Match grade Daisies. 0.1770” compared to 0.1740” for the Daises. The W’mart Daisies run about 0.1720”. The modern (China) shot tubes I’ve slugged, run about 0.1785”. Eccentricity Runs about +/- 0.0005” on both brands.
The Marksman brand will typically group around 3/4” (10 shots, 33 ft, scoped, off bags). The other brands will run 1 1/4”. The guns (2) are Red Riders with factory springs and drilled air tubes 3/32”. Chronys 325 FPS.
Been awhile since I’ve visited the thread, good see you’re still after it.

 

[cobalt327]

Good to hear from you, Dave! The Marksman BBs are the largest I am aware of, too. They won't fit some guns, but except for the Model 499B, Daisy BB guns seem to be okay with them, including the new model No. 25 shot tubes we use in 111-40s, etc.

I buy Marksman BBs at Pyramyd Air (https://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Marksman_Premium_Grade_Steel_BBs_5_1_Grains_Speedloader_1_300ct/439). They cost about $7 per 1000 plus shipping and that includes a silicone speed loader that actually works well. They always have a "buy 3, get 1 free" ammo deal running, so the price is better if you can justify buying 4000 BBs. Using buy 3, get 1 free it would be $32 to my door in N. GA for 4000 BBs and 4 speed loaders. They should sell them minus the loader- who needs that many? One last thing. Pyramyd Air also sells Marksman "Laserhawk" BBs- they are NOT the same as the Marksman Premium Grade Steel BBs.

 

[Lucgd]

Hello all
This is a pretty informative discussion to say the least.
It's interesting that it started as a "What if" and is now a Daisy nowhere near $15.00 starting point with all the modification and re-modification done to it.

 

[Lucgd]

I was wondering if the air tube has a an other function beside being more or less a guide.
Removing it instead of drilling it and give a slight conical shape to the base of the shot tube might give better result

 

[cobalt327]

Well, the 499B doesn't use a shot tube and that, combined with the tighter fit of the 499B shot tube to the BB allows it to shoot over 400 fps using nothing more than a 1938B Red Ryder spring with no other modifications. But the air tube is necessary to allow a Daisy to be a repeater.