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Quality 9x19 ammo recommendations

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Warp, Feb 9, 2018.

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  1. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    Yes, it is hot. I tried some once 'just because', and was impressed. I have a pretty good supply for now. After first shooting it, I did a little internet research, and it certainly seems like it is the "official" Turkish manufacturer. My theory is that Turkey isn't making different levels of ammo (for example, the plinking loads that Blazer sells); whatever they make is potentially sent to their military. And now they're trying to tap into the US shooting market, so they're sending full-power loads over.
    I run this through a CZ 75, Beretta 92SF, and Sig P226 among others, and the difference is noticeable immediately, when you compare it to a range load like Blazer etc. I think you're going to like it.
     
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  2. Warp

    Warp Member

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    My mid-term goal is to shoot up my lower quality, anemic, and/or mild ammo to replace it with (generally higher quality) stuff that has pep. The market (variety and pricing) is so good right now you can be picky and still get great ammo at a great price. Barring big sales (like the AE factory rebate) it's basically out with the lower priced American ammo like Blazer, WWB, Rem/UMC, Federal bulk/brass/champion, etc and in with Speer Lawman, maybe Win Q4318, and good European/foreign ammo particularly NATO spec stuff...with some all sealed up and high quality to hang onto for a long time.

    I really need to get a chronograph.

    And I still really want to find the IMI FMJ 9mm, especially 124gr, in stock at a fair price...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  3. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    Never mind. I thought I'd found it, but it was out of stock.
     
  4. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    Warp, may I ask what you're going to put this ammo through? I'm pushing it though the more robust pistols I own, I don't want to use it extensively with something that isn't intended for higher loads.

    I don't think it's overloaded, but I do think it's on the high end of acceptable. I don't want to beat my guns up TOO much.
    I've seen a couple youtubes with chronographs on this ammo, it does tend to come out hot. Over 1200 in fullsize barrels. I was looking at the Buffman range videos, and the Yavex seems to be a little warmer than the Winchester NATO loads. I would definitely consider it +P for maintenance purposes.

    The guns I shoot it through are the CZ 75, Sig P226, Beretta 92FS, CZ 99, Star 30M. These are solid, a bit overbuilt in some cases. I think I'd also shoot it through my Star BM, as that seems like a little tank (it weighs as much as the others, despite being a single-stack with a sub-4 inch barrel).

    Give us a report with your impressions, I don't want to feel like the only guy shooting this stuff!
     
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  5. Warp

    Warp Member

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    I'll give further reports and how I think they compare as I get through some, which should not take long. I only got 500 yavex for now, arrives tomorrow. I can compare to Winchester nato, the ppu 124 nato that arrived today, Lawman 115/124, RWS gecko 124, 9BPLE, and MEN 124. Oh and HST to include 124+P

    I'm mostly shooting HK VP9 and VP9sk right now. Could also put some through Glocks or a P-01. That's probably it. Not concerned with those guns
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  6. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Speer Lawman is hot. I keep forgetting this when I shouldn't.

    Today's comparison:

    Speer Lawman 115gr
    Prvi Partizan 124gr NATO (the M882 equivalent, 10% above standard pressure, supposedly)
    Winchester 124gr NATO (box says 1200 FPS, from Walmart)
    RWS Geco 124gr

    The above order is ranked by perceived recoil and bang. The Lawman was clearly a step above all the rest. I'll bet a bystander could hear the difference with the Lawman, and I could certainly feel it. The Prvi is slightly above the other two 124's.
     
  7. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    I checked out some Winchester NATO today again. Poor quality control is evident in the sealant and lack and sealant on the primers. Whole boxes had none. Some boxes had some. Some had extra. What else did they miss?

    It’s time for me to order more carry ammo and some more range/backup ammo. I’ll be sticking with Gold Dot 124 for carry and ordering more MEN NATO.
     
  8. Warp

    Warp Member

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    How much of the MEN have you shot? Really like it? I have a little bit arriving tomorrow just to see, might get more in the short term if I like it and it stays so available
     
  9. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    About 500 rounds. I think it’s cleaner burning than Winchester. And the ammo I got initially seemed better processed - the cases and bullets weren’t cruddy like Winchester. It doesn’t feel as hot though, and I think I’ve heard that elsewhere as well. The price seemed right on SGammo last time. $.20 a round. I need to look around again to be sure before I order.

    Check the reviews here if you have time. I didn’t read past the first page, but it’s really positive and reflective of my experience. Someone also posted their chrono results. In the 1050 to 1100 range. So not really hot (but MEN claims a faster FPS of 1200+). http://www.sgammo.com/product/surpl...ato-124-grain-fmj-ammo-made-men-germany-men9b
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  10. wrench459

    wrench459 Member

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    I was screwing around with HOT loads with a barnes bullet.
    First I had to know "if" the mags could handle this.
    Set the tac-xp's ~ 1.150 the bbl "plunk test" was good.

    xHoeUsn.jpg
     
  11. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Yeah I read a lot of those and some reviews elsewhere + some YouTube, which is why I ordered some from SGAmmo. I was looking for hot loaded ammo when I started this thread but not everything I get has to be, and I'm sure it's more consistent than bulk cheap domestic 115gr stuff can be, and also not so weak that it's ever a reliability/cycling concern
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  12. Warp

    Warp Member

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    The Yavex 115gr FMJ is as hot as it gets. Clearly hotter than Winchester 124gr NATO, PPU 124gr NATO (M883 10% above standard pressure), 124gr +P Federal HST, Speer Lawman 115gr, all the bulk econo types (WWB, Blazer, etc)...it's right there with Federal 9BPLE. I'm not sure which is hotter that would take a chrono, the Yavex has a lot more fireball but recoil seemed similar. Yavex might be hotter

    3 WIN 124gr NATO...3 Yavex 115gr...3 Federal 9BPLE



    All Yavex. The framerate of the camera doesn't always catch the maximum muzzle flash, but every round is a giant fireball
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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  13. AJB2

    AJB2 Member

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    I too like the old Fed 9BPLE load . Granted it's old technology but effective . Since I live in a semi - tropical climate & don't have to worry to much about heavy clothing it works for me . I also like the Speer Gold Dot 124 +P & the Ranger 127+P . In 45acp I use the Fed 230 HST +P .
     
  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    The Illinois State Police didn't seem to have any qualms about their 9BPLE and it gets pretty cold up there in the winter.

    I'm hooked on standard pressure HST for carry use right now, the 124+P Gold Dot just isn't as easy to find or as well priced, and the HST expands so dang consistently, without need for the velocity. I like shooting hotter ammo at the range most of the time. I mean, it's still 9mm, so going through hundreds of hot rounds isn't an issue.

    I'm going to have to get more of that fire breathing Yavex
     
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  15. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    Sorry for the late response, but yep- that's my impression too, big fireballs, solid recoil. I'd say it's hot to the point that I don't want to shoot a ton through any one pistol, especially some of my older ones. But my Sig P226, CZ 75 and Beretta 92FS do seem "happy" to run it, it's like taking a dog out and letting it off the leash for awhile.

    Glad I could tip a fellow shooter off to it, I'd say it's really undervalued ammo. And being sealed etc, I wouldn't worry about keeping it stashed for a rainy day.
     
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  16. JDR

    JDR Member

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    IMHO, the Winchester 124gr NATO boxed ammo is considerably better than Winchester White Box ever was, or certainly is now. I’m a big fan of Fiocchi 115gr FMJ factory ammo. When the local Cabelas puts it on sale it’s under 20 cents a round and that’s good value for shooting paper targets. And I stock up on Federal American Eagle ammo at 115, 124, and better yet, 147 grains whenever it’s on sale.
     
  17. Warp

    Warp Member

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    I finished up the 450 rounds o the Win 124 NATO I got at Walmart. The only issue I had was a FTFire in a Gen4 Glock 19, but the round fired when I put it into an HK VP9. I've been stalking Walmart to get some more, actually. Still not buying the 115gr regular WWB though. The Federal "Brass" is okay. Weak, but it's been reliable and isn't nearly as dirty as WWB, currently $18.97/100 + tax.
     
  18. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    I have become a fan of PPU ammo in general. Although I haven't shot PPU 9mm, I've shot PPU .32ACP, 7.62x25, 7.62 Nagant, 8x56R, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54R, 7.5x54 French, 7.5x55 Swiss, and probably others. I have found it to be affordable, accurate, reliable, and made of quality components (especially the brass).
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  19. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    You may want to consider replacing the recoil spring or RSA more frequently/at least according to factory recommended frequencies.
     
  20. Rock185

    Rock185 Member

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    Warp, wish I could find Winchester Q4318 NATO at Walmart. I've used I don't know how many thousands of rounds of the stuff in pistols, revolvers and carbines over the last 20 years or so. I've even recommended it to people with 9MM pistols that are demonstrating weak extraction/ejection issues, failure to lock open on empty, etc. It's one ammo that has always worked without issue in my guns. I've used a couple thousand rounds of the IMI 124 NATO also. It has sealed case mouths and primers too. I've chronographed both these NATO types in a variety of guns. I've found the IMI NATO to average about 3%-5% more velocity than the Winchester NATO in my guns. For instance, in the same 5" pistol, Winchester 124 NATO averages 1185 FPS, the IMI 124 NATO 1240 FPS. In a 16" carbine the Winchester NATO averaged 1296 FPS, the IMI NATO 1349 FPS. I like the IMI 124 grain NATO, but haven't seen any for sale lately. The standard velocity IMI 9MM, yes, but the actual NATO head stamped load, no.

    If you're really interested in actual velocities in your guns, as opposed to what the box, chart or catalog says, or what muzzle blast and/or flash may suggest, I'd suggest a chronograph. Chronographs are inexpensive now days, and reveal some interesting real world results in real world guns, as opposed to test barrels. The results are often different than might be expected.......

    IMI  9MM  NATO 009 - Copy.jpg
     
  21. Warp

    Warp Member

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    The limitation there is my range availability/use. Indoor ranges, always hot, strictly no going past the firing line, are the norm. So I don't know how much use I'd get out of it.

    And while I would like to know precise velocities of the rounds/lots in my guns, the perceived recoil/blast/flip of a 'hot' round should do what I want regardless of which one is hotter, and that is, keep me up to speed with how some of the hotter defensive rounds shoot (sometimes I carry +P) and avoid any possible stoppages from weak ammo that doesn't cycle strongly enough

    Also I don't believe the Win 124gr NATO that is sold at Walmart is actual Q4318, both because they don't call it that and because there is a visible difference in the sealant (or lack thereof). Logical conclusion is that the Walmart stuff isn't identical to the Q4318. And I'm hoping that when I open the Q4318 it's not as dirty as the Wally stuff...
     
  22. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    You want to purchase "hot" ammo for some reason but in my experience unless someone has actually ran their ammo over a chrono they really don't have a good idea of how hot it is by just shooting it. I've read lots of comments that S&B ammo is hot but the 115gr FMJ S&B I have chrono'd only averaged 1,142 fps from my Glock 19, pretty much the same as Winchester white box or Federal American Eagle. Some other examples; Wolf 115gr steel case ammo chrono'd at 1,219 fps. Italian manufactured Fiocchi 115gr JHP's where 1,288 fps all from the same Glock. 124gr FMJ Hot Shot ammo imported by Century arms only averaged 1,054 fps from a Walther P1 so not exactly "hot".

    LEO surplus +P+ ammo is very hot, while I load it for defense at times I don't practice with it beyond shooting enough to make sure it hits where I aim. Winchester Ranger 127gr +p+ chrono'd at 1,273 fps from the G19. Federal 115gr 9BPLE is supposed to be at 1,300 fps+ but haven't ran any across my chrono.

    As a general rule the European ammo loaded to CIP standards like the Italian Fiocchi that was not rated +P is hotter than US ammo loaded to SAAMI standards however as the Hot Shot ammo shows that's not always true.
     
  23. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Perhaps, but

    ^And for my purposes I'm not even actually after the FPS of the projectile as it leaves the barrel, I'm aft

    Also, if you check that video and pay particular attention to the Yavex rounds...I'll give you a Glock for free if those aren't measurably hotter on a chrono than the WWB or Federal Brass piled up on Walmart's shelves (I should have run some of that weak stuff in there too to really hammer the comparison...)

    It's been awhile since I shot any S&B but I don't recall thinking it was hot, which is mostly why I didn't consider buying any.

    What LEO surplus +P+?

    The Euro ammo does generally run hotter, that's for sure...not a coincidence my recent acquisitions were all made in Europe/Turkey. There is an exception to this...Speer Lawman.
     
  24. Rock185

    Rock185 Member

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    Steve C, I've chronographed the Federal 115 9BPLE +P+ in a bunch of guns. Velocities varied with different manufactuer's barrels, even though the barrels were the same length. For instance, three different manufactuer's 5" barrels produced between 1336 FPS and 1417 FPS with the 9BPLE. A 3" revolver produced 1313 FPS. A 3.5" semi-auto, 1239 FPS. A 16" barrel produced 1587 FPS average with the 9BPLE.
     
  25. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Heads up, that IMI 115gr die cut JHP ammo has come down from $320/1k to $254 (+$16 shipping)

    Any IMI 9mm has been really hard to find all year
     
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