Quality of firearms and the price point?

[Moparnut]

Some threads, as of late, have talked about quality of one manufacture or another. Many of us here believe quality comes in at a certain price point for an item.

Tell me what quality means to you and at what price point that becomes a factor.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Depends on what I'm purchasing and how you define quality. For some quality is going bang every time and others expect heirloom quality.

For me it's about reliability and durability.

 

[Sarge7402]

First one must decide on what you call quality. In my book it's not what a firearm looks like, but how it functions, it's reliability and it's accuracy. I've been shooting a number of my .22 pistols on playing cards and a sheet of paper. Without a doubt all of them from the Jennings 22 to the Walther TPH and PPK/s were equally reliable and accurate out to 50 or so feet. Matter of fact since I've used the same Q target through out the shooting, I've got a five by six inch hole attesting to the basic accuracy of all the firearms tested. Funny, my most recent addition - an Iver J TP22 made of steel and Zemak - kept all fifty some odd rounds on the playing card at about 30 - 35 feet. Had one or two misfires which most went off on the second pull of the trigger.

Will a Zemak gun keep shooting for as long as an all steel or steel and aluminum gun? I don't know. But we should know something in the next six months or s

 

[MedWheeler]

It really depends. For example, two and a half bills buys a lot more in the way of a polymer-framed personal-defense weapon than it buys in a steel target revolver.

The price of a Hi-Point, when actually applied to a Hi-Point, buys more than when it's applied to a Jimenez J/A Nine.

 

[Moparnut]

Depends on what I'm purchasing and how you define quality. For some quality is going bang every time and others expect heirloom quality.

For me it's about reliability and durability.

I tried to leave the question a little open, so you can tell what quality means to you and how much you are willing to pay for it. Hope that helps. I updated my question for clarity.

 

[Axis II]

imo if anything cost more than say $300 it should have no issues. the marlin thread touched a nerve with me because I too have a marlin with mixed matched stocks. the forarm is about a shade or two lighter than the stock and has way different checkering. I paid $400 with rebate and I expect it to match because its the right thing to do and not because of a price point.

 

[huntsman]

$500. I seem to accumulate guns at that price + - a bit and most used but a couple new. Quality to me means good to go no modification needed.

 

[kozak6]

Quality means durability, reliability, and reasonable accuracy for the intent of the firearm.

I agree that $500 is a good general number.

Most modern semiautomatic pistols are somewhere around there, although it might be a little low for a centerfire revolver. Most modern hunting rifles can be had for that or less. It's enough for a basic AR15. It's well enough for a pump shotgun and some semiautos, although you might need to spend more for a stackbarrel. Most rimfires are going to be significantly less, but $500 will buy a relatively nice one.

There are occasional standouts, like Hi Points, surplus, or with some used firearms, but I think $500 is a good basic number.

 

[Danoobie]

$500. I seem to accumulate guns at that price + - a bit and most used but a couple new. Quality to me means good to go no modification needed.

Cheap
Well made
Easy to shoot


Pick any two.

IME, I have to agree, the quality and features start to appear in the 500$ to 800$
range. Usually closer to the 800$ end. See very few nice guns under five.

 

[1911 guy]

I try to buy everything i need, including guns, at the point of diminishing return for my intended use. Quality does cost money. Good material, skilled labor, quality control, all of that costs money. But past a certain point, whether it is a gun, a car or a tool from the hardware store, quality plateaus and you begin paying for "fluff". A favored brand name, a slick marketing ploy, nostalgia, whatever. If that "whatever" is worth it to you, you pay the extra money. If not, you buy the product that costs a little bit less.

For example, I like Hebrew National hot dogs because they taste better than cheaper hot dogs. But I will not buy a more expensive hot dog because how good, exactly, do you expect mystery meat in a tube to taste? Diminishing return.

You can chase "quality" until you own nothing but the best of everything and have the bills to prove it. Or you can buy "value". Buy the product that meets your needs, is durable enough for your needs, has enough quality to perform adequately.

 

[JONWILL]

Cheap
Well made
Easy to shoot


Pick any two.

IME, I have to agree, the quality and features start to appear in the 500$ to 800$
range. Usually closer to the 800$ end. See very few nice guns under five.

True

Under $500 are generally utility guns. Shooters, CCW guns, Reliable and durable.

Higher priced handguns are ones for pride of ownership. Like a S&W 27 or Old Colt 1911 etc....

Don't get me wrong but a Glock or Smith M&P, CZ P-07 etc..... are great guns buy not works of art.

 

[Mn Fats]

Stevens 200 bolts used to be one hell of a buy for under $300. Savage still owns bang for the buck imo. I've never looked at price point, more looked at reputation.

 

[jmr40]

It depends on whether aesthetics or function is more important. To get both around $1,000-$1,200 is the starting point depending on whether you're talking about handguns, rifles or shotguns. The $500-$600 guns seem to be sorta stuck in no mans land. I can't think of anything at around $500 that will do anything lots of $300-$400 guns won't do just as well. And there are lots of very functional guns in the $300-$600 range that will shoot every bit as good as the $1,000+ guns.

A lot of $500-$1,000 guns are functionally a little better than the sub $500 guns, but are rarely pleasing aesthetically. Some manufacturers put a cheap stick of wood on them and that impresses some buyers because it isn't plastic. But it is still a cheap stick of wood.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I don't know, some people are strange. Back when I was a PFC in the Army my two room mates had Rolex watches, which believe me is a statistical anomaly, I had a G-Shock. Both would admit they did not keep great time and both had had to have them repaired at great expense. I just did not get it, it they break a lot and don't keep time how is that a quality watch. That is not quality its bling.

I tend to think HK and Sigs are way over priced. Sigs made in the US are way way over priced. But I think hand guns are tools, nothing more, nothing less. Brutal solutions to brutal problems. Elegance need not apply. It needs to be reliable, durable and be more accurate than me. After that its all just features. Pretty is not quality, its simply pretty.

Like it or not, Glock plus or minus $50 tends to be the price point for diminishing returns in my mind. Because like it or not Glock is a standard.

 

[Elkins45]

I don't know, some people are strange. Back when I was a PFC in the Army my two room mates had Rolex watches, which believe me is a statistical anomaly, I had a G-Shock. Both would admit they did not keep great time and both had had to have them repaired at great expense. I just did not get it, it they break a lot and don't keep time how is that a quality watch. That is not quality its bling.

I tend to think HK and Sigs are way over priced. Sigs made in the US are way way over priced. But I think hand guns are tools, nothing more, nothing less. Brutal solutions to brutal problems. Elegance need not apply. It needs to be reliable, durable and be more accurate than me. After that its all just features. Pretty is not quality, its simply pretty.

Like it or not, Glock plus or minus $50 tends to be the price point for diminishing returns in my mind. Because like it or not Glock is a standard.

Watch people are crazy. They will pay thousands for a mechanical watch that is far less reliable or accurate than a $100-200 quartz. They say "quartz" like gun people say "Hillary."

Some gun people are the same way. They use terms like "Tupperware" to describe polymer guns or refer to Pachmayr grips on revolvers as "Goodyears."

To me quality means a gun has all three of these qualities: functionality, durability and accuracy. While I appreciate the beauty of a hand-fitted H&H, I don't need that level of asthmatics to consider a gun to be quality. Others will disagree.

 

[bannockburn]

Back in the day $300 (in some cases, like with revolvers, somewhat less), was a decent price point for just about any quality handgun out there. Nowadays I think $500 to $600 for a polymer frame gun with an established track record and $700 on up for a steel/aluminum alloy frame gun is probably the norm. I have always looked for reliability, durability, ergonomics, accuracy, and build quality in all of my gun selections.

 

[Speedo66]

"Quality" is a difficult term to define, it varies depending on individual thought. Some may find a Uberti revolver to be quality because it functions perfectly, other may accept nothing less than a custom made from a Freedom Arms.
Does a basic design from a respected maker signify quality, or does it have to be artistically engraved, and furnished with the finest wood? All in the mind of the purchaser.

I'm not a person who seeks embellishments, I prefer my tools to be strictly functional, no worries taking a gun Into into the woods.

People mentioned watches and hotdogs. I will not wear a quartz watch even though I know it's more accurate than the Rolex Submariner I bought in Geneva in 1970. Until I took it off about 3 years ago and gave it to my son, that watch was worn 24 hours a day, every day. Shower, swim, free dive, off road motorcycle riding, etc., it never let me down. It may have run a little slow before I gave it to him, but it never stopped running. See if you can get a quartz watch to do that for 45 years. Batteries? Batteries? I don't need no stinking batteries!

Hotdogs. I will not eat some tasteless air filled Costco snack bar hotdog, or any of its type. Need a premium cased dog with a snap when you bite in. Think Boar's Head. Why bother otherwise?

 

[Sniper66]

Quality??? Clearly in the eyes and wallet of the beholder. As my affluence grew so did my desire and ability to buy better "quality" firearms. The last 3 rifles I bought have been around $1,000. If my income continues to grow and the roof doesn't fall in, I'll buy a couple of $2,000+ Anschutz or Coopers and maybe a couple of Kimber pistols. Rule of thumb: Buy the best quality you can afford. By the way, I rather like CostCo hot dogs

 

[grampajack]

Quality to me means that no one should really ever have to use the warranty. If you see a bunch of people raving about the warranty and customer service, then you know you have a Tarus, Keltec, or something on your hands. Likewise, you shouldn't really hear anything negative about the warranty or customer service, or you know you have a Remington on your hands.

Price varies. To me, a hipoint is a high quality firearm for what it is. As is a Glock. But just like you can't find a high quality plastic fantastic (i.e. Glock) for $150, you won't find a good quality 1911, Hipower, etc. for the price of a polymer striker fired gun.

There are pretty much fixed price points for different types and styles of guns. For example, all of your plastic fantastics are in the 500 dollar range. You can fudge that a little depending on where the gun is made, and what the productions volume is. But there are economical constraints that are as unyielding as the laws of nature, and that's especially true of firearms considering the regulatory hoops everyone in the system has to jump through.

 

[tarosean]

Quality??? Clearly in the eyes and wallet of the beholder.

That is basically the only answer. People will only try and justify their individual point through whatever means necessary.

Lets be real, a vast majority of guns will work as intended now a days. If they are truly rubbish they don't last too long in this marketplace. Good guns can be had from 150.00 dollars to 100,000.00+ and very few people will actually wear a gun out.

 

[larryh1108]

To me, a good quality gun is accurate, reliable and durable. It should have good fit, finish and minimal tooling marks. It should be able to withstand conditions that the usual shooter puts it in like handling, sweat, holster use and less than ideal conditions. This doesn't mean that it still looks brand new after hard use but that it still functions as expected and does not disintegrate into a pile of rust or parts when pushed. The owner should not have to worry about it going bang, if needed, after carrying it or shooting it at the range for many years. It is just a well built gun.

To me, high quality means everything above with fit and finish taken to the next level. If a quality gun has great reliability it's hard to say a high quality gun will be more reliable because that is not what happens. Reliable is reliable. High quality means premium finishes, hand fit solid steel parts and assembly and an attention to detail that quality firearms cannot afford to produce. The high quality firearms are that way because the human element is more prevalent and QC is upped to the level of the price. High quality equates to more hands on production and an eye for detail. That is what raises the price.

It seems that the term "quality" is mistaken for "high quality" all too often. It's not wrong to expect a high quality firearm when putting down your hard earned money but the cost of the little things is what sets apart quality from high quality. In terms of high quality, you do get what you pay for. In terms of quality, the name on the firearm means a lot.

 

[Manny]

I've never regretted buying quality, I've always regretted settling for something less. In vehicles I know that Honda & Toyota will give me solid, long lasting vehicles that I will likely have no or at least very few issues with and I'll probably not have to spend much maintenance dollars on beyond oil & filter changes, tires & brakes. They'll also hold resale value very well and last longer than the payments. In tools I used to look at Craftsman as a solid choice across the board, in the last several years I've found reason to doubt that, at least across the board and tend towards Mac or SnapOn now. Expensive, Yes. But also generally to notch with good back up too.

Guns, Ruger by far is the most common brand in my safe. Primarily double action revolvers and 10/22's with a few others for flavor. Not perfect, I won't buy one without checking it first, but darn good & a good value. I also drink the Glock, Sig & HK koolaid too. I have NO interest in owning a weapon that is of lessor quality just to save a few bucks.

 

[redneck2]

Quality is pretty easy to define. I think what most people mean is value

As somebody said one time, as you spend more and more you get less and less. Each individual has to determine their tipping point

My income and desires may be significantly different from yours. I know a guy that literally has an oil well on his home property. $50,000 a day. He's in a different position from most everyone here

Is it stupid for him to buy a $2,500 scope or a $10,000 rifle?

Is an Anschutz "better" than a CZ? Yeah, no doubt. Is it worth and extra $1,500-$3,000 to shoot 1/10" smaller @ 50 yards? To some people, yeah

Gets back to your definition of value

 

[bearcreek]

Tell me what quality means to you and at what price point that becomes a factor.

A quality firearm, to me, is reliable, durable and accurate. Fairly simple really. Obviously how each of those is measured varies depending on application. For example, all my semi auto pistols are fighting guns. I don't own any that are set up and intended specifically for hunting or target shooting. For that purpose want to be confident that the gun is reliable enough to run through at least 3-4000 rounds of ammo using a standard standing shooting stance without a malfunction. It needs to be durable enough to not corrode after being held in a kydex holster against my sweaty, sawdust covered (I cut trees for a living) body for a week, as long as it's properly lubed. It needs to be accurate enough to get consistent hits on a 8 inch plate from a standing position at 25 yards. Obviously, those numbers and criteria are different for my hunting rifles or my fighting rifles.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

i think the word value gets over looked a lot. Something can have a lower price point but be good for the money spent to meet or fill a goal of whatever type. Sometimes these value items are better than mid shelf items. Scopes are a good topic for that. As far as guns go, it depends on what you are doing. I would rather have a handgun that will work reliably, is ergonomic, and is set up for my style carry, then to go grab a hipoint because its $150. Although some (not me) could argue that it is good for the money. Not my life, not my problem.
Rifles are similar too. A lot of people, specifically in this forum, have WAY different opinions on what they think is good for a rifle, what is precise and what is good for this or that application, or what type of ammo works best for x and y. To each their own, as long as the manufactures are getting theirs, im sure they dont care.