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Question about a W.Richards Shotgun.

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Spark7, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. Spark7

    Spark7 Member

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    My father left me this double barrel shotgun which I know was his fathers. I believe the date of this shotgun is between the late 19th century and early 20th century. Near the trigger it is marked "W. Richards". The barrel reads "Laminated Steel". I have searched the shotgun but can not find a date or serial number. Here are the pictures of the gun. Does anyone have anymore information?

    Thanks
     

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  2. Oldnamvet

    Oldnamvet Member

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  3. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    If it only has a W, it's not a Westley Richards. They always spelled it out.

    There is an English maker named W. Richards, but their site says:

    "Please Note. There are many W Richards reproduction guns throughout the world. A genuine gun will have W Richards (Gunmakers) Liverpool Ltd (or Preston/London etc) stamped on the rib between/above the barrel(s)."

    Next, and probably the most likely, the American firm Crescent made hardware store guns marked with W. Richards (along with hundreds, if not a thousand other names.) About halfway down the page there is a partial list: ww.gundealersonline.com/firearmID.asp

    If there is an ELG proofmark on the gun it was a copy made in Belgium. Look under the barrels.

    Hope this helps some.

    John
     
  4. macFarlaine

    macFarlaine Member

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    JohnBT is correct.I think you have what we call an American knock off,an American gun which was manufactured with British trade names to encourage sales.I have a couple of W.Richards of Liverpool 16b,both with Damascus barrels.
    I also have the gem in the W.Richards line,the Westley Richards of Birmingham.Fine examples of British gun and rifle makers.
    I posted on the 16b thread one of my W.Richards.
     
  5. ecilanna

    ecilanna Member

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    Spark7 W. Richards Double Barrel Shotgun

    I have the same shotgun.
     
  6. ecilanna

    ecilanna Member

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    I do shoot it everyday.
     
  7. ActionYobbo

    ActionYobbo Member

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    I have the same gun. mine is missing the fore end. any one got some good pics of the forend or even better got a forend to sell me
    thanks
     
  8. tube_ee

    tube_ee Member

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    If you're going to shoot it,

    use low pressure loads only. And I don't mean cheap promo loads from wally world.

    A laminated-steel, back-action hammergun was almost certainly proofed for black powder only.

    There are a couple of companies making low-pressure loads for older guns, that use smokeless powders but stay within the black powder pressure envelope. If you reload, seek out the nitro-for-black loads that have been developed, or load with actual black powder.

    Loading with black would seem the safest of all courses, although you must accept the additional cleaning that goes with it. Black powder is pretty forgiving stuff. Modern fast shotshell powders... not so much.

    Older guns in good working order can be safe to shoot... if, and only if, you stay within the pressure realms that they were built for. That's not possible with most modern shotshells.

    --Shannon
     
  9. justajoe

    justajoe Member

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    W. Richards shotgun

    Hello, I also have the same gun. I am very interested in selling it and have NO idea of it's value. I signed on with the hopes that someone could help me figure it out. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
     
  10. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    Westley Richards shotguns are well made and highly sought after.

    W Richards shotguns are almost all cheap knockoffs, sold for a few dollars new and now qualify as shotgun shaped artifacts,not firearms.

    Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  11. Ron James

    Ron James Member

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    The shotguns marked W. Richards are Belgium imports. They are not American nor English.
     
  12. justajoe

    justajoe Member

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    After further investigation of our W. Richards shotgun, we noticed the initials; SF between the barrels on the underside. Does anyone know if this is of any significance?
     
  13. JFageaux

    JFageaux Member

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    I purchased the same gun at a garage sale for $25.00 about 3 years ago. It also has the initials SF
    between the barrels, don't know what it stands for???
     
  14. Tom Held

    Tom Held Member

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    SF Meaning

    I think it means "Stand Faraway" when you shoot it. Tom
     
  15. jrf4au

    jrf4au Member

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    re w.richards shotgun

    I have one of these guns as well and am trying to figure out if it is authentic. mine has w.richards on both sides of stock, and laminated steel on top of barrel. The end of the stock has a deer head and what appears to be NF on top of each other like a symbol. any help would be appreciated. thanks, james
     
  16. whitecloud

    whitecloud Member

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    W.Richards

    JRF4AU, could you post pictures of that shotgun? Is it a hammer gun and what is its overall condition? Even though these are not the Westly Richards famed shotguns, some of these are fairly great shooters, regardless what some might say!Thank you.
     
  17. Tony Maxwell

    Tony Maxwell Member

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    Richards Double Barrel Shotgun

    I too have a Richards with the proof marks ELG. Any ideas who in Belgium may have manufactured it? The butt plate has 3 dogs chasing a larger animal possibly a pig. Interesting. Purchased it in New Mexico possibly used as a stagecoach gun. Serial number 1750.
     
  18. USAF-AMMO

    USAF-AMMO Member

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    W. Richards Shotgun

    Pull off the wooden grip under the barrels, you wil find some numbers and symbols there.

    I was given a W. Richards Shotgun, that has "LONDON FINE TWIST" between the barrels.

    I have E-mails W. Richards to see if they could help me find out any history
     
  19. rickomatic

    rickomatic Member

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    USAF AMMO,
    I have one with the "London Fine Twist" on the bar between the barrels too. My wife got it for me years ago as a wall hanger. It's been hanging above our wood stove on some Muley antlers. I think I'm gonna move it downstairs to my recently finished reloading/gun room. :D
     
  20. vetteblaster

    vetteblaster Member

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    I also own a doublebarrel shotgun with the W.RICHARDS engraving on it. It says on the barrel something like ckct steel, liege, belgium, underside says ELG 182,and down the barrel 1387 and three other numbers farther down ? Does anybody have any more info on this gun?
     
  21. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Yours too is a Belgian no-makers-name shotgun sold by hardware & catalog stores all over the U.S. in the late 1800's.

    It is neither a real English Westley Richards, or even close to that grade of gun.

    Pull off the forend and you will find Belgian black-powder proof marks I betcha.

    These were a "cottage industry" made gun at the time.

    One place made the barrels, another the locks, and another the wood. Then they were assembled somewhere else.

    Sears & Roebuck sold similiar Belgun guns for $8.95 in 1902. An American made Ithaca sold for $25.10.

    A real handmade English Westly Richards would have been several times more then that!

    rc
     
  22. rickomatic

    rickomatic Member

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    Not completely off topic, but, my brother in law recently asked me (I'm considered the gun guy in the family) about an old shotgun he'd gotten. His looks to be of a similar age as my W. Richards, but his is marked W. Parkhurst. From the little bit of information I've been able to find, these too were cheap knockoffs of fine English guns. Anyone familiar with the W. Parkhurst shotties?
     
  23. Ron James

    Ron James Member

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    W. Richards shotguns are Belgium made, Inexpensive Belgium made at that. They are not fine English shotguns and not Fine American made shotguns. They were not not used as stage coach guns nor were they used by Doc Holiday at the OK Corral. Laminated Steel barrels is another word for Damascus or welded steel. if you shoot these guns with modern loads please don't let anyone you care about stand close to you, sooner or later they will blow. Even the best Damascus made shotguns are reproofed before they are used with light loads. These shotguns were sold by H&D Folsome, who by the way owned Crescent Firearms Co. Because of this fact some people will say they were made by Crescent. No, you will never find a W. Richards shotgun with out the Belgium proof mark on both the barrel and receiver. I have the name of the import agent who imported them for H&D but I don't want to dig through my records. Who made them in Belgium?? While Belgium did have some premier gun makers, these shotguns were made under contract. Meaning?, one cottage maker would made the barrels, another the receivers and yet another would make the stocks and put the parts together. :) On the shotgun ( not shottie, a shottie is a snot rag ) marked Parkhurst, pull the forearm, if you find the letters ELG in a circle or oval it falls in the same class as the W. Richards. If you find just a crown and perhaps a pair of crossed spears ( Haliberts) then more reseach is in order.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2009
  24. Terry Linderman

    Terry Linderman Member

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    I also have a W. Richards, 10 ga. double barrel muzzle loader. From what I've learned so far, it is not a Westley Richards, could be a genuine English W. Richards, or could be a Belgian knockoff (often made by Crescent, an American company that knocked off just about everything). Mine doesn't have Belgian proof marks, not sure what the proof marks are, but might be Birmingham. Anybody have British proof marks from that far back (probably pre-1850)?
     
  25. Bud Tugly

    Bud Tugly Member

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    I've always wanted to get one of these old doubles. Would it be safe to shoot modern ammo if you used a set of 28 gauge or .410 insert tubes in one?
     
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